Thinking you'd probably have to see Tony as being in love with Ziva to be able to see him as jealous in something like that. Although I do believe that Tony is an eternal little lost boy I don't trace that back to Ziva but to dear old dad...which will hopefullly be somewhat cleared up in January.
”Now why would discovering that Ziva & McGee had a 'thing' between them make Tony either 'grow up' or rethink his being 'mean' to them>
”Actually no,not at all....But then I've had issues with her from the time she was assigned to the team by Jenny...It's grown into now I'm just plain over her...
”mmaienza wrote: rmariett wrote:
Sorry but we've seen zilch evidence that she learned from her experiences. She still has the attitude of a self-entitled, self-righteous, self-centred princess who *KNOWS* it's all about her and the world and the universe revolve around her needs and wants. For me at least, this does nothing to make me accept that her actions and dialogue during her four years at NCIS - and most especially during the final four eps of season six - are realistic for anyone EXCEPT for Ziva David, SuperNinjaMossadAssassinPrince ss(tm)!
Hey I was just wondering what you've seen this season that leads you to say she hasnt changed and still acts the way you stated above. This is not meant in a rude way, but I would love to hear others thoughts and since I havent really seen that aspect to her this season Iwas wondering what you have seen. I also find it interesting how from each side of pro and anti Ziva fans always bring up "what would you do" or "this is what I would do" (I am not defending Ziva's action, these are just thoughts), nobody really knows what they'll do in a situation until it actually happens, emotions are funny like that and sometimes dont make a lot of sense. I learned this lesson a while ago whenI made those same comments and then when I was faced with the situation I did the exact opposit of what I said I would do. (As I write this my husband and daughter decided I should be the wickedwitch instead of a princess, I dont know how I should take this).
For thi season.....TorC - the oh woe is me, I'm ready to die because I deserve it victim act was overdone and almost over the top.The only hint of a change was on their return to the yard when she let Abby hug her. In Reunion, which was set 3 months after TorC, she entered Gibbs' home without an invitation, then acted like she deserved to have everything returned to the way it was prior to the big mess at the end of S6. Not to mention it appeared as if it had to be pointed out to her that she needed to talk to someone other than Gibbs or Vance. Her conversation with McGee was interesting and gave the appearance of change but appearances can be deceiving. It was refreshing to see Abby ream her but she clearly didn't mean it all. The overdue conversation with DiNozzo was little but another power trip. In 7X03, she assumed that Gibbs would be wiling to recommend her for NCIS. In 7x04, (GCBC), she again had to be pushed to reveal the story behind the Damocles. Past that, since names of episodes are eluding me, there was the episode where she took umbrage wtih being called a probie - despite the idea that it was what she was. Any changes that were ballyhooed over the summer have been hidden as life returns to normal at NCIS and by normal it's simply a return to the Ziva that we've had prior to the beginning of Legend.
”jetgibbs wrote: I think that the actors play to it as well.
If I was MW, I'd definitely rather play to a pairing with Gibbs than with Ziva....
”mmaienza wrote: Okay I have read some of the comments and I am just going to offer my opinion on some of them. There was a lot since my last post. gibbsgirl 8 I am not sure if I agree with you on Blowback because those guys were harassing her and she did try to just walk away, if I am correct I believe one even grabbed her by the arm, which I wouldn’t even stand for. However, I agree with tejasjulia in regards to Recoil, it didn’t fit with the character of Ziva, I never really understood why she was so effected…so I can really see that there are some inconsistencies with her character. Also if you were never really a fan of Ziva I can see how these things can really put you off from her for good. I really like Ziva so it doesn’t bother me as much but I can see where everyone is coming from. Also as524 mentioned her being shoved down everyone's throats in the last part of season 6 and the beginning of season 7 and with this I can also understand your frustration especially if you never really took to the character in the first place. I kinda felt that way with Tony for a while during his undercover operation which made no sense to me because really did he ever get information or become any closer to the "Frog" because of his interactions with his daughter, yes in the end but that was just by luck, from what I remember she surprised him with a meeting with her father, I never really heard Tony inquire much and never really understood what they thought he would gain by becoming close to his daughter who is a doctor and not involved in the business of selling weapons. JMO.
By the way I like how even though there are different opinions on this board right now everyone is being respectful and that it very nice to see.
I tried at the beginning to like her, kept telling myself that I didn't like her because I found Jenny's entrance (complete with Paris flashbacks galore) so distasteful. But for me it came down to not having the whys & hows of her presence on the team & in the agency fully vetted. (guess I know too much about Gov't). So every other issue with Ziva just compounded. & I can understand your frustration with Tony & the undercover arc. To me, SB & DPB wanted to test the waters with a major romance on screen & that was his way of doing it. Plus I was able to put it up to Jenny. As far as the respectfulness on the thread, you're right, it is nice to see. & I think it counts as a measure to those who are discussing it with each other as well as not responding to those who wade in only to cause trouble with their tone/word choice...
”white-mouse wrote: cappuccino79 wrote: tejasjulia wrote:
She fell apart in Recoil because she's badly written. She nearly blew their assignment in Undercovers by calling Tony by his real name in the restaurant instead of by his alias, something he had to correct her on. What makes her far from "human" is her inconsistency and shallow, cliched characteriation.
I disagree that she's badly written and that she has shallow, cliched characterization. Kate suffereed from much more cliched characterization than Ziva ever has. And in fact all of the characters are written inconsistently. Just trashing Ziva's character for the sake of trashing her and saying the same things over and over again about her doesn't mean that the other characters don't go through the same thing.
But really, it's too bad you don't like Ziva, especially given that she's going to be around for a long time.
She was afraid she'd fallen victim to the old saying 'use it or lose it' in recoil and reacted to slowly. once she'd retraced her steps she realised she hadn't. In undercoversTony blurted out his real name to the guy beating him up. Lucky for him it worked in his favour distracting the poor thug, but as he was tied to a chair and unarmed it could've been a diaster and got Ziva killed too.
Actually you might need to re-watch Undercovers...that was no blurt by Tony....Ziva used his name inside conversation that was, IIRC, getting a bit testy 0 at least on her part. At the point of the beating where Tony said his name he did it in a way that was identifying himself, not blurting. The expression on his face & word choice were both calculated which is easy to see if you re-watch. Ziva's use was even more evident as ablurt because of the same things.
”glad you can do it in your sleep....I'm too tired to think at the moment. You know how when you're taking a test or something & you go, I know I've seen/said/done this before....
”thanks, tejas
”tejasjulia wrote: This is what was so great about Kate. She was so very real, flaws and all. She was well-grounded in reality. Ziva, on the other hand, is Bond-Girl-Lite... and not even good Bond-Girl-Lite.
as524 wrote: She's a assassin yet falls apart when she shoots the guy inRecoil. She's great at undercover work but nearly blows their assignment during Undercovers. We are constantly being told one thing about her yet shown the opposite. None of the characters are superheros...but Ziva as a fictional character is so far from being even close to what a human would be if any of these characters really existed that it's downright pathetic.
Worse than that...she seriously reminds me of either a badly written Mary Sue or some teen girl's dream of what they want their life to be when they grow up
”