Survivor

I think they need to change the format to include waaaay more individual immunities. I'm sick of seeing a bunch of losers banding together to vote out the strong players - namely Marcus and now Charlie.Who would want to watch the superbowl if two teams with losing records were playing because they voted out the good teams that they viewed as a threat.Kenny and Chrystal aren't bad people but even as they lost challenge after challenge, they kept voting out the strong members of their tribe (like Ace). They're losers not only for losing but also for continuing to vote out the strong members of their own tribe which further perpetuated the losing.Then they teamed up with Susie, another total loser, to vote out Marcus, arguably the strongest player in the challenges. That totally ruined the show for me. It's like a bunch of 2-7 football teams voting out a 9-0 team.The tribe changing twist last week also ruined the show. Marcus had also done an excellent job of building alliances but then he got stuck with the losers. The game is supposed to be about skill, not luck when pulling numbers out of a bag. They totally negated Marcus' considerable skill and effectively eliminated him with the number he pulled out of the bag. I don't care to watch that. I want to see people win or lose based on their skill.They need to have individual immunities for at least half of the members of whichever tribe is going to council - 8 tribe members = 4 individual immunities. The immunity challenges should be a mixture of physical and mental competitions since different people possess different types of skills.I've been a Survivor fan since season 1 but I've quit watching in the middle of several seasons because of this same phenomenon and I'm through with this season as well. I also used to watch Big Brother but have quit watching in the middle of the past 2 seasons for the exact same reason.Let's see a show where the winners make it to the end and have a real showdown like the superbowl!

Michigan Wolverines would be the 2-7 and The OHIO STATE BUCKEYES would be the 9-0. I don't say this because i'm from Ohio, but i say this because Michigan can't beat Ohio State no matter what! Part of the game is winning no matter what. So you bring up one of my Fav shows, Big Bro. look at DAN, there is noooo way he should have won the game he was the only one left in his alliance and won the whole game. I know the games are toatally diff but the point still remains the same.

I can agree on some points about having losers in the finals. There have been seasons were people did nothing but coast to the end and that made me mad. However, I feel the "losers" are playing a great strategic game this season. Everyone deserves thier spots in the game right now. I love it when "strong" players get voted out. Makes for good tv. Could you imagine how borig the final tribal council would be if Charlie and Marcus DID make the final two?Marcus: I think you really deserve the money Charlie.Charlie: No Marcus. You are so wonderful, you deserve the money.YAWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!

dbvand wrote: I think they need to change the format to include waaaay more individual immunities. I'm sick of seeing a bunch of losers banding together to vote out the strong players - namely Marcus and now Charlie.Who would want to watch the superbowl if two teams with losing records were playing because they voted out the good teams that they viewed as a threat.Kenny and Chrystal aren't bad people but even as they lost challenge after challenge, they kept voting out the strong members of their tribe (like Ace). They're losers not only for losing but also for continuing to vote out the strong members of their own tribe which further perpetuated the losing.Then they teamed up with Susie, another total loser, to vote out Marcus, arguably the strongest player in the challenges. That totally ruined the show for me. It's like a bunch of 2-7 football teams voting out a 9-0 team.The tribe changing twist last week also ruined the show. Marcus had also done an excellent job of building alliances but then he got stuck with the losers. The game is supposed to be about skill, not luck when pulling numbers out of a bag. They totally negated Marcus' considerable skill and effectively eliminated him with the number he pulled out of the bag. I don't care to watch that. I want to see people win or lose based on their skill.They need to have individual immunities for at least half of the members of whichever tribe is going to council - 8 tribe members = 4 individual immunities. The immunity challenges should be a mixture of physical and mental competitions since different people possess different types of skills.I've been a Survivor fan since season 1 but I've quit watching in the middle of several seasons because of this same phenomenon and I'm through with this season as well. I also used to watch Big Brother but have quit watching in the middle of the past 2 seasons for the exact same reason.Let's see a show where the winners make it to the end and have a real showdown like the superbowl!

It's funny how people here have this perennial tension to convey the "Fang" tribe as the 'losers'. The game is definitely not all about physical strength; rather, it mostly comes down to the social and mental aspect of the game. The 'strong' players are being voted out solely based on what they have done wrong, and Ace and Marcus are perfect examples of this.The producers of Survivor have little to do with this. The multiple switch-ups were not rigged in the fact that it was up to fate or choice. Kenny and Crystal are well more deserving of winning than Marcus and Charlie based on their raw ability to manipulate, socialize, and persuade. For the past couple of episodes, they have been able to do this--thus, why they are more deserving. This week, both the "winners" and "losers" had a shot at persuading Sugar to vote on their behalf, but based on the fact that Kenny, your so called 'loser' is better at the social aspect, they came out as the "winners".The physical games are there to keep one or a group in the game.. and that only. It does NOT define the whole game or whom is more deserving as Kenny well conveyed in today's episode. How are the Kota II "winners"? They had more physical players.. and that is all. The social aspect of the game is there to eliminate one of the players.. and that is it.Thus, your argument is flawed. Kenny and Crystal are the better players in this game based on the fundamental fact that they have been the major contributors to voting out... BASED ON THEIR STRATEGY.Remember, "Outwit, Outlast, and Outplay".

dbvand wrote: I think they need to change the format to include waaaay more individual immunities. I'm sick of seeing a bunch of losers banding together to vote out the strong players - namely Marcus and now Charlie.Who would want to watch the superbowl if two teams with losing records were playing because they voted out the good teams that they viewed as a threat.Kenny and Chrystal aren't bad people but even as they lost challenge after challenge, they kept voting out the strong members of their tribe (like Ace). They're losers not only for losing but also for continuing to vote out the strong members of their own tribe which further perpetuated the losing.Then they teamed up with Susie, another total loser, to vote out Marcus, arguably the strongest player in the challenges. That totally ruined the show for me. It's like a bunch of 2-7 football teams voting out a 9-0 team.The tribe changing twist last week also ruined the show. Marcus had also done an excellent job of building alliances but then he got stuck with the losers. The game is supposed to be about skill, not luck when pulling numbers out of a bag. They totally negated Marcus' considerable skill and effectively eliminated him with the number he pulled out of the bag. I don't care to watch that. I want to see people win or lose based on their skill.They need to have individual immunities for at least half of the members of whichever tribe is going to council - 8 tribe members = 4 individual immunities. The immunity challenges should be a mixture of physical and mental competitions since different people possess different types of skills.I've been a Survivor fan since season 1 but I've quit watching in the middle of several seasons because of this same phenomenon and I'm through with this season as well. I also used to watch Big Brother but have quit watching in the middle of the past 2 seasons for the exact same reason.Let's see a show where the winners make it to the end and have a real showdown like the superbowl!

Boo hoo, bitch. Okay, so, if the underdogs band together and vote off pompous douchebags, like MarCUNT, then they're losers...? Okay there, kiddo. Marcus was lucky because Charlie had a crush on him, and that Corrine and Jacquie probably thought he was hot or something.His ass was grass. You'll live. This game is about luck and skill. Why are you constantly brining up the superbowl. Worst.analogy.ever. Marcus overstayed his time on Survivor. As well as Charlie. The end.Survivor doesn't need changes my friend. You do. Have a splendid day.

I'd love to see the change to individual immunities and a breaking up of the alliances. It becomes way too predictable.It is too bad CBS has not given us the reporting feature of obscene talk. Please ignore the obscene posters.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 11/14/2008 02:03:00

EDIT:Oh nevermind, I see what you are saying. You want to combine tribe immunity with individual immunity so that the strong players stay in.I disagree, but just because I like the way this show works already.

Catani1234 wrote: It's funny how people here have this perennial tension to convey the "Fang" tribe as the 'losers'. The game is definitely not all about physical strength; rather, it mostly comes down to the social and mental aspect of the game. The 'strong' players are being voted out solely based on what they have done wrong, and Ace and Marcus are perfect examples of this.The producers of Survivor have little to do with this. The multiple switch-ups were not rigged in the fact that it was up to fate or choice. Kenny and Crystal are well more deserving of winning than Marcus and Charlie based on their raw ability to manipulate, socialize, and persuade. For the past couple of episodes, they have been able to do this--thus, why they are more deserving. This week, both the "winners" and "losers" had a shot at persuading Sugar to vote on their behalf, but based on the fact that Kenny, your so called 'loser' is better at the social aspect, they came out as the "winners".The physical games are there to keep one or a group in the game.. and that only. It does NOT define the whole game or whom is more deserving as Kenny well conveyed in today's episode. How are the Kota II "winners"? They had more physical players.. and that is all. The social aspect of the game is there to eliminate one of the players.. and that is it.Thus, your argument is flawed. Kenny and Crystal are the better players in this game based on the fundamental fact that they have been the major contributors to voting out... BASED ON THEIR STRATEGY.Remember, "Outwit, Outlast, and Outplay".

I don't believe that Sugar voted w/ Kenny's team because of Kenny's "good" social game. I think she had enough brains to realize that her best shot at winning this whole game was to go with Kenny's team, because they are a weaker team. She knows she has a better shot of getting herself to the top 3, at least, by (1st) killing off Charlie's team, (2nd) winning an individual immunity (because Kenny's team is mentally, socially, & physically weaker than Charlie's team, she would have a better chance at this) & (3rd) eventually using the idol she already has. However, if she she went with Charlie's team then she would be at the bottom, because I am sure she didn't forget how tight, smart, & physically strong his team was, & she would have a less likely chance at winning individual immunity after Kenny's team was voted off, if she went that way. Also, because Bob went to Exile, she may be worried that he would have realized that she had the idol, and she would have a whole knew target on her back if she went with Charlie's team, but Kenny's team already knows about it, and therefore she doesn't have to hide it from them and worry as much at the moment about them trying to "flush" it out, like Charlie's team did with Dan (who they thought may have the idol, although they voted for him for other reasons as well).Sugar's reason's for going with Kenny's team were probably similar to Suzie's reason's for switching sides and voting out Marcus. In the end they are taking out the stronger players in the game to benefit no one but themselves. And I don't like it. Although everyone has a shot at winning & a chance to do what they can to win, as a viewer I would rather see someone with good social, physical, & intellectual skills, and with a strong tight alliance from the beginning, win this game than the people who get a free ride on the coat-tails of those power players. Those free-loaders get carried so far in this game by the power players only to stab them in the back when it suits them best, all because the game had a stupid twist that allowed them to be cut-throat, mainly because of an off-set in numbers. I knew when Sugar started getting all emotional and teary-eyed when they were voting at tribal council that she had voted Charlie, because I think she actually liked Charlie's team better than Kenny's, but knew she didn't have a good chance at winning the game, if she had stayed with Charlie's team, which is too bad, but is understandable.

because I think she actually liked Charlie's team better than Kenny's

Actually it was because she hated Charlie's team more than Kenny's :p I just saw the tribal council video and her reason was that Charlie allied himself with 2 very unlikable people (Randy and Corinne) and thus she had no choice and he had to go. She really liked Charlie though.

catani1234 wrote:

dbvand wrote: I think they need to change the format to include waaaay more individual immunities. I'm sick of seeing a bunch of losers banding together to vote out the strong players - namely Marcus and now Charlie.Who would want to watch the superbowl if two teams with losing records were playing because they voted out the good teams that they viewed as a threat.Kenny and Chrystal aren't bad people but even as they lost challenge after challenge, they kept voting out the strong members of their tribe (like Ace). They're losers not only for losing but also for continuing to vote out the strong members of their own tribe which further perpetuated the losing.Then they teamed up with Susie, another total loser, to vote out Marcus, arguably the strongest player in the challenges. That totally ruined the show for me. It's like a bunch of 2-7 football teams voting out a 9-0 team.Well it's not to difficult to keep your social game going when you have NEVER been separated. Crystal and Ken have never been separated while evryone else has. The tribe changing twist last week also ruined the show. Marcus had also done an excellent job of building alliances but then he got stuck with the losers. The game is supposed to be about skill, not luck when pulling numbers out of a bag. They totally negated Marcus' considerable skill and effectively eliminated him with the number he pulled out of the bag. I don't care to watch that. I want to see people win or lose based on their skill.They need to have individual immunities for at least half of the members of whichever tribe is going to council - 8 tribe members = 4 individual immunities. The immunity challenges should be a mixture of physical and mental competitions since different people possess different types of skills.I've been a Survivor fan since season 1 but I've quit watching in the middle of several seasons because of this same phenomenon and I'm through with this season as well. I also used to watch Big Brother but have quit watching in the middle of the past 2 seasons for the exact same reason.Let's see a show where the winners make it to the end and have a real showdown like the superbowl!

It's funny how people here have this perennial tension to convey the "Fang" tribe as the 'losers'. The game is definitely not all about physical strength; rather, it mostly comes down to the social and mental aspect of the game. The 'strong' players are being voted out solely based on what they have done wrong, and Ace and Marcus are perfect examples of this.The producers of Survivor have little to do with this. The multiple switch-ups were not rigged in the fact that it was up to fate or choice. Kenny and Crystal are well more deserving of winning than Marcus and Charlie based on their raw ability to manipulate, socialize, and persuade. For the past couple of episodes, they have been able to do this--thus, why they are more deserving. This week, both the "winners" and "losers" had a shot at persuading Sugar to vote on their behalf, but based on the fact that Kenny, your so called 'loser' is better at the social aspect, they came out as the "winners".The physical games are there to keep one or a group in the game.. and that only. It does NOT define the whole game or whom is more deserving as Kenny well conveyed in today's episode. How are the Kota II "winners"? They had more physical players.. and that is all. The social aspect of the game is there to eliminate one of the players.. and that is it.Thus, your argument is flawed. Kenny and Crystal are the better players in this game based on the fundamental fact that they have been the major contributors to voting out... BASED ON THEIR STRATEGY.Remember, "Outwit, Outlast, and Outplay".

catani1234 wrote: It's funny how people here have this perennial tension to convey the "Fang" tribe as the 'losers'. The game is definitely not all about physical strength; rather, it mostly comes down to the social and mental aspect of the game. The 'strong' players are being voted out solely based on what they have done wrong, and Ace and Marcus are perfect examples of this.

I didn't say it was all about physical strength. I said that the challenges should include both mental and physical challenges. I also said that Marcus had done a great job of building alliances within his own tribe which is the social aspect. They're all three important.The reorganization of the tribe members last week that took Marcus away from his tribe, effectively took the alliance building aspect out of the game and based the outcome on luck.You're right about the slogan "Outwit, Outlast, and Outplay". The outcome should be based on a combination of physical, mental and social strength. Kenny and Crystal were only able to vote Marcus out because of the number he pulled out of a bag. What does that have to do with skill? If that hadn't happened they wouldn't have been able to vote Charlie out this week either.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 11/14/2008 09:19:26

dbvand wrote:

catani1234 wrote: It's funny how people here have this perennial tension to convey the "Fang" tribe as the 'losers'. The game is definitely not all about physical strength; rather, it mostly comes down to the social and mental aspect of the game. The 'strong' players are being voted out solely based on what they have done wrong, and Ace and Marcus are perfect examples of this.

I didn't say it was all about physical strength. I said that the challenges should include both mental and physical challenges. I also said that Marcus had done a great job of building alliances within his own tribe which is the social aspect. They're all three important.The reorganization of the tribe members last week that took Marcus away from his tribe, effectively took the alliance building aspect out of the game and based the outcome on luck.You're right about the slogan "Outwit, Outlast, and Outplay". The outcome should be based on a combination of physical, mental and social strength. Kenny and Crystal were only able to vote Marcus out because of the number he pulled out of a bag. What does that have to do with skill? If that hadn't happened they wouldn't have been able to vote Charlie out this week either.

You conveniently forgot how bad they treated Susie, never made her feel included back in Kota camp, YET somehow expects her to follow their ORDERS and vote their way.You call that good social game from Marcus/Onions?

BTW, i agree with your topic "Survivor needs changes". It needs to keep changing to entertain its viewers (us). It needs to keep changing the game so that the players are not able to predict the game all the time, and will NOT be able to outsmart the game. Gabon did that quite well and I'm pleased to get surprises all the time. I wouldn't want to watch all 17 (and upcoming 1

seasons thats exactly the same like i expected.

I really don't like the players now. I can't stand Ken,Crystal and Susie. I hate it when all that's left are the lazy and whiney people. I won't be paying much attention anymore to the show thisseason. All of the interesting people are gone. I really didn't like the twist last week!

I just took the time to register for the message board because I'm so disgusted with the path of Survivor I just deleted the rest of this season from my DVR! The producers have totally screwed up this season. I agree that all the somewhat weak survivors should have a chance to make the million, but this was contrived by the powers that be and now I'm totally turned off to this season. They taken the need to be a strong team and allowed weakness to be a strength... YIKES

dbvand wrote: I think they need to change the format to include waaaay more individual immunities. I'm sick of seeing a bunch of losers banding together to vote out the strong players - namely Marcus and now Charlie.Who would want to watch the superbowl if two teams with losing records were playing because they voted out the good teams that they viewed as a threat.Kenny and Chrystal aren't bad people but even as they lost challenge after challenge, they kept voting out the strong members of their tribe (like Ace). They're losers not only for losing but also for continuing to vote out the strong members of their own tribe which further perpetuated the losing.Then they teamed up with Susie, another total loser, to vote out Marcus, arguably the strongest player in the challenges. That totally ruined the show for me. It's like a bunch of 2-7 football teams voting out a 9-0 team.It would've been stupid, not to get rid of Marcus the first chance possible, he had to go.The tribe changing twist last week also ruined the show. Marcus had also done an excellent job of building alliances but then he got stuck with the losers. The game is supposed to be about skill, not luck when pulling numbers out of a bag. They totally negated Marcus' considerable skill and effectively eliminated him with the number he pulled out of the bag. I don't care to watch that. I want to see people win or lose based on their skill.They need to have individual immunities for at least half of the members of whichever tribe is going to council - 8 tribe members = 4 individual immunities. The immunity challenges should be a mixture of physical and mental competitions since different people possess different types of skills.I've been a Survivor fan since season 1 but I've quit watching in the middle of several seasons because of this same phenomenon and I'm through with this season as well. I also used to watch Big Brother but have quit watching in the middle of the past 2 seasons for the exact same reason.Let's see a show where the winners make it to the end and have a real showdown like the superbowl!

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