NCIS

I'm with you Xan... on every point you've made on this thread.

:

I stuck with NCIS through season 6 eventhough it was rapidly becoming the Ziva/Tiva hour because Iloved the early seasons of the show. I loved the cameraderie. I loved the TEAM. Istuck with season 7 eventhough we had 4 episodes in a ROW of Ziva the Diva because I loved the early seasons of the show, I loved the cameraderie, Iloved the TEAM. And I really wanted to meet DiNozzo Sr. I couldn't believe it had taken SEVENseasons to get to Tony's dad, when Iknew MOREthan I EVER wanted to know about the David family dynamic within the first season of Ziva being introduced.

:

Though the case in "Flesh and Blood"was pathetically weak and just a sad excuse for a case, the effortless dynamic between Gibbs and Tony was BACK, it was all over that episode, and Ihad spent 2 seasons missing it and lamenting ever seeing it again. It gave me hope that season 7 might see a return to what I'd loved about NCIS way back from season 1 when Ifirst started watching. Only to be sadly disappointed.

:

We've had three absolute CRAP episodes in a row. "Jetlag"was pathetic on EVERYlevel (from story, to plot, to timing, to plot devices, to the wet-noodle actress cast as the whistle blower who just would not shut up about the Tiva) to "Masquerade" (which apparently had NO fact checking on even the most basic legal level and brought us the single most annoying and irritating recurring guest character NCIShas ever had... and a really painful lack of chemistry in the final scene) to end up with "Jack Knife" (which, while Iloved the reappearance of Joe Spano as Fornell, Iwas completely uninterested and ambivalent about everything else. Ididn't care about Ziva going under cover... in fact, Ican't bring myself to care about Ziva in ANYrespect anymore, she's just been shoved down my throat too much, I didn't care about the reappearance of Werth since he was written SObadly, Ididn't care about the case, which bears NOresemblance to anything NCISwould ever investigate.)

:

I realize that a lot of NCIS' current popularity has a great deal to do with the MASSIVE syndication push that the marathons on USA have provided, but really... I don't think that NCISwould have half its numbers if the summer marathons hadn't happened. It certainly doesn't deserve them this season. Brennan and his current team of writers is driving this show into the ground with weak plots that dead monkeys could write better, character destruction via turning once great characters into shadows of their former selves, and pandering with the ridiculously insipid "will they wont they" Tiva crap.

:

Iused to LOVEthis show. Seasons 1 and 2 (and most of 3) had great cameraderie between the characters, the chemistry was effortless, the episodes were character driven without sacrificing plot and story and without dumbing down the intricacies of the case, the characters made sense given who they were... now? Now, if I'm not ambivalent about new episodes, I actively dread them depending on the previews and trailers.

:

I even have to agree with the disappointment in the actors. The last three episodes have read like everyone just phoned them in. Tony is written like an utter moron (where is the goofball that held a whip-quick, street smart cop?), Ziva is the most annoying diva that ever there was (IDON"TCARE if she can kill you with a paperclip... ENOUGHALREADY), Tim used to be brainy, but sweet (now, he's just a d*ck), Gibbs used to actually SMILE and talk to his team (now, I'm never sure which Gibbs I'm going to get), Abby used to be fiesty and now she's just written like a tattooed 5 year old with ADHD.

:

I am so disappointed in a show Ionce took great pleasure in watching... now, its almost like watching a train wreck: you know the end is coming, and you know its going to be spectacular in its fiery destruction, but you just can't look away.

Exactly what she said x4.

silvertales wrote:

I'm with you Xan... on every point you've made on this thread.

:

I stuck with NCIS through season 6 eventhough it was rapidly becoming the Ziva/Tiva hour because Iloved the early seasons of the show. I loved the cameraderie. I loved the TEAM. Istuck with season 7 eventhough we had 4 episodes in a ROW of Ziva the Diva because I loved the early seasons of the show, I loved the cameraderie, Iloved the TEAM. And I really wanted to meet DiNozzo Sr. I couldn't believe it had taken SEVENseasons to get to Tony's dad, when Iknew MOREthan I EVER wanted to know about the David family dynamic within the first season of Ziva being introduced.

:

Though the case in "Flesh and Blood"was pathetically weak and just a sad excuse for a case, the effortless dynamic between Gibbs and Tony was BACK, it was all over that episode, and Ihad spent 2 seasons missing it and lamenting ever seeing it again. It gave me hope that season 7 might see a return to what I'd loved about NCIS way back from season 1 when Ifirst started watching. Only to be sadly disappointed.

:

We've had three absolute CRAP episodes in a row. "Jetlag"was pathetic on EVERYlevel (from story, to plot, to timing, to plot devices, to the wet-noodle actress cast as the whistle blower who just would not shut up about the Tiva) to "Masquerade" (which apparently had NO fact checking on even the most basic legal level and brought us the single most annoying and irritating recurring guest character NCIShas ever had... and a really painful lack of chemistry in the final scene) to end up with "Jack Knife" (which, while Iloved the reappearance of Joe Spano as Fornell, Iwas completely uninterested and ambivalent about everything else. Ididn't care about Ziva going under cover... in fact, Ican't bring myself to care about Ziva in ANYrespect anymore, she's just been shoved down my throat too much, I didn't care about the reappearance of Werth since he was written SObadly, Ididn't care about the case, which bears NOresemblance to anything NCISwould ever investigate.)

:

I realize that a lot of NCIS' current popularity has a great deal to do with the MASSIVE syndication push that the marathons on USA have provided, but really... I don't think that NCISwould have half its numbers if the summer marathons hadn't happened. It certainly doesn't deserve them this season. Brennan and his current team of writers is driving this show into the ground with weak plots that dead monkeys could write better, character destruction via turning once great characters into shadows of their former selves, and pandering with the ridiculously insipid "will they wont they" Tiva crap.

:

Iused to LOVEthis show. Seasons 1 and 2 (and most of 3) had great cameraderie between the characters, the chemistry was effortless, the episodes were character driven without sacrificing plot and story and without dumbing down the intricacies of the case, the characters made sense given who they were... now? Now, if I'm not ambivalent about new episodes, I actively dread them depending on the previews and trailers.

:

I even have to agree with the disappointment in the actors. The last three episodes have read like everyone just phoned them in. Tony is written like an utter moron (where is the goofball that held a whip-quick, street smart cop?), Ziva is the most annoying diva that ever there was (IDON"TCARE if she can kill you with a paperclip... ENOUGHALREADY), Tim used to be brainy, but sweet (now, he's just a d*ck), Gibbs used to actually SMILE and talk to his team (now, I'm never sure which Gibbs I'm going to get), Abby used to be fiesty and now she's just written like a tattooed 5 year old with ADHD.

:

I am so disappointed in a show Ionce took great pleasure in watching... now, its almost like watching a train wreck: you know the end is coming, and you know its going to be spectacular in its fiery destruction, but you just can't look away.

Thanks Silvertales, and I agree with your points too. I suppose I'm just so tired of us having to make them. I actually think "Jetlag" was the beginning of the end for NCIS, and we'll see a slow decline from now on. The figures for "Masquerade" and "Jack Knife" indicate that. I don't think it's just down to "Tiva", although I don't think that's the draw that SB thought it was, judging by the "Jetlag" viewing figures. I think Tiva is part of why the show is so bad these days, but it's not the only reason. It's also down to all the other things we've been saying for so long.

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People have given S7 a chance but like the OP, are now realising this show is NOT the NCIS they fell in love with on USA. I think the decline has started now that fact is hitting home. As for not being able to look away - to be honest, I think I can. As I've said before, I'm now far more into the fandom than the show - I could give up the show tomorrow based on the last 3 eps and not miss it one iota. I WILL miss that great show Iused to love so much though, and I'll miss the Tony, Gibbs and Abby I used to love too. But they don't exist on the show anymore so what's the point of tuning in to watch people moving around looking like them but sounding and acting not remotely like them? It's actually too depressing to bother with.

I do agree that everyone that is involved with the show is responsible for what they bring to the show. Ido have to say the show does have to grow. it it would stagnant if it didn't. Iam not saying Ilike every little thing but over all Ido enjoy the show. My views on it are different then most of yours. Ido hope that there are episodes you will like. I am going to continue to watch the show and see where it goes.

I also have been a fan from episode 1 season 1...and continue to love the show..While I agree that there have been some "less than stellar" episodes in the pat few years, I recognize that change is necessary if the series is to remain interesting and "alive"...Characters HAVE to grow and change....I may not always be comfortable with the change in my favorite character, but I would be unhappy if they were so static that they became predictable and "boring" ...Change makes us all uncomfortable....and having seen 61/2 seasons of NCIS I can honestly say that the writers (and S/B ) have proven that they know what thay are doing...the show still excites and involves me...and I still need to rewatch every episode because there is so much "meat" in the script I can't digest it all the first time I view it

ncisdame wrote:

I also have been a fan from episode 1 season 1...and continue to love the show..While I agree that there have been some "less than stellar" episodes in the pat few years, I recognize that change is necessary if the series is to remain interesting and "alive"...Characters HAVE to grow and change....I may not always be comfortable with the change in my favorite character, but I would be unhappy if they were so static that they became predictable and "boring" ...Change makes us all uncomfortable....and having seen 61/2 seasons of NCIS I can honestly say that the writers (and S/B ) have proven that they know what thay are doing...the show still excites and involves me...and I still need to rewatch every episode because there is so much "meat" in the script I can't digest it all the first time I view it

I don't understand why people continually interpret our complaints as usbeing against character growth or change. On the contrary! If I SAW some character growth I'd be very pleased but instead what we get is character regression. We get Tony behaving like an idiot, Abby becoming a 5 year old, and Ziva being a snippy diva.We get arrogant!Tim and pod!Gibbs. I don't understand how ANYONE can interpret that as character growth.

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I would love to see, for example, Tony growing up a bit, and Gibbs leaning on him more as his second in command. I'd like to see Tony getting in Gibbs's face more and calling him on his secretive or obsessive behaviour like he did in Cloak. I thought THAT was welcome character development but it appears it was a one off. I'd like the show to acknowledge the characters' ages because behaving as if Abby is in her late twenties is ludicrous when the actress is 40! THAT is what I call character growth - not having Tony behave like an idiot. How is THAT character growth? Michael Weatherly is over 40 - at what point is it still even relevant to have Gibbs say he's the "best young agent I ever worked with"? At his age he should be a seasoned agent in his prime and not being treated like an up and coming young prospect! I think half NCIS's trouble is keeping it's characters in a perpetual state of arrested development INSTEAD of moving them on and letting them grow!

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I don't agree that"change makes us all uncomfortable"- change for the better generally makes people pretty happy. I would love to see NCIS change and grow and *improve* but a decline in the quality of the writing, plotting, acting and characterisation does not equal growth!

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I USED to rewatch every episode but there's no point now as they're so unrewarding and have so many plot holes. Also, they're *boring*. And that isn't something I ever used to say about NCIS. And the fact so many people are saying the same thing makes it clear it's not just a few of us noticing the problem. I honestly do think we'll see the ratings continue to decline as more and more people abandon what the show has become.

xanthencis wrote:

ncisdame wrote:

I also have been a fan from episode 1 season 1...and continue to love the show..While I agree that there have been some "less than stellar" episodes in the pat few years, I recognize that change is necessary if the series is to remain interesting and "alive"...Characters HAVE to grow and change....I may not always be comfortable with the change in my favorite character, but I would be unhappy if they were so static that they became predictable and "boring" ...Change makes us all uncomfortable....and having seen 61/2 seasons of NCIS I can honestly say that the writers (and S/B ) have proven that they know what thay are doing...the show still excites and involves me...and I still need to rewatch every episode because there is so much "meat" in the script I can't digest it all the first time I view it

I don't understand why people continually interpret our complaints as usbeing against character growth or change. On the contrary! If I SAW some character growth I'd be very pleased but instead what we get is character regression. We get Tony behaving like an idiot, Abby becoming a 5 year old, and Ziva being a snippy diva.We get arrogant!Tim and pod!Gibbs. I don't understand how ANYONE can interpret that as character growth.

.

I would love to see, for example, Tony growing up a bit, and Gibbs leaning on him more as his second in command.I'd like to see Tony getting in Gibbs's face more and calling him on his secretive or obsessive behaviour like he did in Cloak. Ithought THATwas welcome character development but it appears it was a one off. I'd like the show to acknowledge the characters' ages because behaving as if Abby is in her late twenties is ludicrous when the actress is 40!THATis what Icall character growth - not having Tony behave like an idiot. How is THATcharacter growth? Michael Weatherly is over 40 - at what point is it still even relevant to have Gibbs say he's the "best young agent I ever worked with". At his age he should be a seasoned agent in his prime and not being treated like an up and coming young prospect!I think half NCIS's trouble is keeping it's characters in a perpetual state of arrested development INSTEADof moving them on and letting them grow!

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Idon't agree that"change makes us all uncomfortable"- change for the bettergenerally makespeople pretty happy.I would love to see NCIS change and grow and *improve* but a decline in the quality of the writing, plotting, acting and characterisation does not equal growth!

.

I USED to rewatch every episode but there's no point now as they're so unrewarding and have so many plot holes. Also, they're *boring*. And that isn't something Iever used to say about NCIS. And the fact so many people are saying the same thing makes it clear it's not just a few of us noticing the problem. I honestly do think we'll see the ratings continue to decline as more and more people abandon what the show has become.

nicksfroend wrote:

You are correct Xan...character growth is expected but redeveloping the characters is a little bit dramatic. We have Tony who lost all of his brain cells starting in season six with jsut a glimpse of hope in Flesh and Blood that he still had some of the ole Tony left in him only to be disappointed in the next episode.Now wonder he has to see a therapist...he has truly lost who he once was due to all hte changes.

.....

Then there is our Abby:My gosh, where do I start? She is off the chart..... different than the character in the beginning...she is almsot childlike now, EEwwww. (Though I did enjoy her jumping on Tony in Masquerade.) She was delightful once upon a time ...now she is anoying...when we get to see her but I do hear that she is **** in real life and that does take a toll.

.......

Oh boy, then there is Timmy. I am jsut a little bit confused why he is taking the lead these days except for the fact he is the step son of Donald Bellisario. He has lost a lot of weight...KUDOS...But he is not what the show is about, he is like all over the place, one week he is arrogant, then we have annoying, arrogant at others then at times he is just plain ole snippy...He is really starting to act like Tony and he is definitely not Tony!

........

Oh and then there is Ziva... self righteous Ziva , the woman who has taken Shannon's place as Gibbs' daughter (wait I thought that was Abby's job?) she constantly demeans Tony, always gets her way, goes undercover when she can't even understand truck lingo...which could have been really bad if she had been overheard by the bad guys that she thought it was another language.She is too diva like and is a total turn off to most fans. And I will not, as a rather new fan, forgive her so easily for throwing Tony to the ground in Israel, a hurt Tony at that, and push a gun into his chest and his knee....she is a bully! No matter what people say, this is how she came across to those of us who are the marathoner crowd. She lied to the team, she slept with the enemy...She lied to Gibbs! What kind of a daughter does that? HE should have kept her off the team, went with his gut and shoved her to the curb!

...........

Where is Ducky and Palmer this year.....I miss their wit and their conversations. I miss Palmer's friendship with Tony.

.....

I guess what I am trying to say is that I miss the old team dynamics, the quality of the show is deminishing and no matter how much I don't want to...I am losing interest. This is not the show that won me over on the USA channel.....It just isn't and I'm so very disappointed!

Nick, I love your posts. I love hearing from someone who found NCIS via the marathons and is saying it like it IS. Sometimes I'm dismissed, as are some of the others, because we're "old diehard" fans, meaning somehow that we won't be satisified with anything the show does. This isn't true! I am very easily satisfied - I loved F&B and said so loudly on these boards. It felt like we were getting, as you said, our *OLD* Tony back. The one we fell in love with. I'll honestly say if there are things I love - I don't actually enjoy complaining and far prefer squeeing! But there is so little to squee about at the moment.

.

I wondered what the marathoners thought about what Ziva did at the end of S6 and how that wasn't addressed or dealt with in S7. It's a huge sticking point for so many of us and is the reason why so many dislike the character now. "Bully" is the right word to use for her. And lying to Gibbs and the fact she's now his new "daughter"? What happened to Abby? It may well be the actress is "with child" (as this community software won't let me use the actual term!) but she isn't remotely showing, and I've seen actresses work up until a baby is about to drop and it's worked around with camera angles and handily placed bags *g*. We know they work through illnesses because of MW's "Bounce"commentary.

.

Nobody has said why Abby is hardly in it these days. To me, it just looks like it's because of the need for endless Tiva/Ziva scenes, but if there is another reason I'd be glad to hear it. As SB has been talking about an "Abby arc" it seems unlikely to me that PP's possible condition is the reason for us seeing so little of Abby. And I don't actually believe she'll be getting an arc anyway. She'll be lucky if she gets an episode at this rate when she barely gets a *scene* these days.

xanthencis wrote:

nicksfroend wrote:

You are correct Xan...character growth is expected but redeveloping the characters is a little bit dramatic. We have Tony who lost all of his brain cells starting in season six with jsut a glimpse of hope in Flesh and Blood that he still had some of the ole Tony left in him only to be disappointed in the next episode.Now wonder he has to see a therapist...he has truly lost who he once was due to all hte changes.

.....

Then there is our Abby:My gosh, where do I start? She is off the chart..... different than the character in the beginning...she is almsot childlike now, EEwwww. (Though I did enjoy her jumping on Tony in Masquerade.) She was delightful once upon a time ...now she is anoying...when we get to see her but I do hear that she is **** in real life and that does take a toll.

.......

Oh boy, then there is Timmy. I am jsut a little bit confused why he is taking the lead these days except for the fact he is the step son of Donald Bellisario. He has lost a lot of weight...KUDOS...But he is not what the show is about, he is like all over the place, one week he is arrogant, then we have annoying, arrogant at others then at times he is just plain ole snippy...He is really starting to act like Tony and he is definitely not Tony!

........

Oh and then there is Ziva... self righteous Ziva , the woman who has taken Shannon's place as Gibbs' daughter (wait I thought that was Abby's job?) she constantly demeans Tony, always gets her way, goes undercover when she can't even understand truck lingo...which could have been really bad if she had been overheard by the bad guys that she thought it was another language.She is too diva like and is a total turn off to most fans. And I will not, as a rather new fan, forgive her so easily for throwing Tony to the ground in Israel, a hurt Tony at that, and push a gun into his chest and his knee....she is a bully! No matter what people say, this is how she came across to those of us who are the marathoner crowd. She lied to the team, she slept with the enemy...She lied to Gibbs! What kind of a daughter does that? HE should have kept her off the team, went with his gut and shoved her to the curb!

...........

Where is Ducky and Palmer this year.....I miss their wit and their conversations. I miss Palmer's friendship with Tony.

.....

I guess what I am trying to say is that I miss the old team dynamics, the quality of the show is deminishing and no matter how much I don't want to...I am losing interest. This is not the show that won me over on the USA channel.....It just isn't and I'm so very disappointed!

Nick, I love your posts. I love hearing from someone who found NCIS via the marathons and is saying it like it IS. Sometimes I'm dismissed, as are some of the others, because we're "old diehard" fans, meaning somehow that we won't be satisified with anything the show does. This isn't true! I am very easily satisfied - I loved F&B and said so loudly on these boards. It felt like we were getting, as you said, our *OLD* Tony back. The one we fell in love with. I'll honestly say if there are things I love - I don't actually enjoy complaining and far prefer squeeing! But there is so little to squee about at the moment.

.

I wondered what the marathoners thought about what Ziva did at the end of S6 and how that wasn't addressed or dealt with in S7. It's a huge sticking point for so many of us and is the reason why so many dislike the character now. "Bully" is the right word to use for her. And lying to Gibbs and the fact she's now his new "daughter"? What happened to Abby? It may well be the actress is "with child" (as this community software won't let me use the actual term!) but she isn't remotely showing, and I've seen actresses work up until a baby is about to drop and it's worked around with camera angles and handily placed bags *g*. We know they work through illnesses because of MW's "Bounce"commentary.

.

Nobody has said why Abby is hardly in it these days. To me, it just looks like it's because of the need for endless Tiva/Ziva scenes, but if there is another reason I'd be glad to hear it. As SB has been talking about an "Abby arc" it seems unlikely to me that PP's possible condition is the reason for us seeing so little of Abby. And I don't actually believe she'll be getting an arc anyway. She'll be lucky if she gets an episode at this rate when she barely gets a *scene* these days.

I have read everything on this board and i have to say most of you have the same feelings as me. Its like most of you are in my head and we are thinking the same thing. I do have to say tho that Ziva the great has takin tony place as Gibbs right had man and Abbys place as Gibbs favorite. I have heard they are trying to build up NCISLA SBs fav show. I dont watch LA but NCIS Season 1-5 are the best and as long as i have them. Im still waiting for MH to smack someone on the back of the head and say what were yah thinkin we werent broke but we are now fix it now.

kate06460 wrote:

I do agree that everyone that is involved with the show is responsible for what they bring to the show. Ido have to say the show does have to grow. it it would stagnant if it didn't. Iam not saying Ilike every little thing but over all Ido enjoy the show. My views on it are different then most of yours. Ido hope that there are episodes you will like. I am going to continue to watch the show and see where it goes.

I'm with you, really. Over the years all of the characters have undergone changes. Gibbs actually started out being more fun, but he got pretty intense after the whole ordeal with Ari and Kate. He might seem like he's mellowingand acting "old", but honestly, he IS getting older, and I think what we're seeing is a reasonable evolution for an aging character.Tony started out teasing McGee, but it seemed like he eventually got carried away with it (no small wonder McGee eventually had to start standing up for himself). It seems like this year McGee and Tony finally have something of a real working-partner chemistry going on - I like it. Eventually, I think, they will get Ziva straightened out (but I think maybe we will see more of her father again before the dust completely settles on that subject). Abby seems to appear less frequently this season, but I know Pauley got married and has been working on other projects, so that might be by her own choice. If this is the case, I would respect her wishes. I think Ducky will get his time in yet this year; they need to address the fact that the actress who played his mother has passes away, and I think they will address his mother's passing before the end of the season. Palmer should be about ready to graduate, so maybe he will get his day, too. Honestly, when I watch some of the episodes from seasons 1 & 2, they were pretty compartmentalized. Some of them really weren't that good, either. There have been some really good, fun, episodes this season (Jack Knife included), so I'm not terribly worried about the quality of the show. Actually, I think this season (so far) has been MUCH better than last season as a whole.

I don't understand how people can consider the complete destruction of characters as growth. Change is good. Devolution of the characters is bad. Change from the exciting jump cuts to the boring shots that EVERYONE does is bad. No one's saying they don't like change; they don't like destructive changes. At least that's me. I have to stop responding before reading other's posts, because Xanthe and others said this beautifully.

pjr63 wrote:

xanthencis wrote:

nicksfroend wrote:

You are correct Xan...character growth is expected but redeveloping the characters is a little bit dramatic. We have Tony who lost all of his brain cells starting in season six with jsut a glimpse of hope in Flesh and Blood that he still had some of the ole Tony left in him only to be disappointed in the next episode.Now wonder he has to see a therapist...he has truly lost who he once was due to all hte changes.

.....

Then there is our Abby:My gosh, where do I start? She is off the chart..... different than the character in the beginning...she is almsot childlike now, EEwwww. (Though I did enjoy her jumping on Tony in Masquerade.) She was delightful once upon a time ...now she is anoying...when we get to see her but I do hear that she is **** in real life and that does take a toll.

.......

Oh boy, then there is Timmy. I am jsut a little bit confused why he is taking the lead these days except for the fact he is the step son of Donald Bellisario. He has lost a lot of weight...KUDOS...But he is not what the show is about, he is like all over the place, one week he is arrogant, then we have annoying, arrogant at others then at times he is just plain ole snippy...He is really starting to act like Tony and he is definitely not Tony!

........

Oh and then there is Ziva... self righteous Ziva , the woman who has taken Shannon's place as Gibbs' daughter (wait I thought that was Abby's job?) she constantly demeans Tony, always gets her way, goes undercover when she can't even understand truck lingo...which could have been really bad if she had been overheard by the bad guys that she thought it was another language.She is too diva like and is a total turn off to most fans. And I will not, as a rather new fan, forgive her so easily for throwing Tony to the ground in Israel, a hurt Tony at that, and push a gun into his chest and his knee....she is a bully! No matter what people say, this is how she came across to those of us who are the marathoner crowd. She lied to the team, she slept with the enemy...She lied to Gibbs! What kind of a daughter does that? HE should have kept her off the team, went with his gut and shoved her to the curb!

...........

Where is Ducky and Palmer this year.....I miss their wit and their conversations. I miss Palmer's friendship with Tony.

.....

I guess what I am trying to say is that I miss the old team dynamics, the quality of the show is deminishing and no matter how much I don't want to...I am losing interest. This is not the show that won me over on the USA channel.....It just isn't and I'm so very disappointed!

Nick, I love your posts. I love hearing from someone who found NCIS via the marathons and is saying it like it IS. Sometimes I'm dismissed, as are some of the others, because we're "old diehard" fans, meaning somehow that we won't be satisified with anything the show does. This isn't true! I am very easily satisfied - I loved F&B and said so loudly on these boards. It felt like we were getting, as you said, our *OLD* Tony back. The one we fell in love with. I'll honestly say if there are things I love - I don't actually enjoy complaining and far prefer squeeing! But there is so little to squee about at the moment.

.

I wondered what the marathoners thought about what Ziva did at the end of S6 and how that wasn't addressed or dealt with in S7. It's a huge sticking point for so many of us and is the reason why so many dislike the character now. "Bully" is the right word to use for her. And lying to Gibbs and the fact she's now his new "daughter"? What happened to Abby? It may well be the actress is "with child" (as this community software won't let me use the actual term!) but she isn't remotely showing, and I've seen actresses work up until a baby is about to drop and it's worked around with camera angles and handily placed bags *g*. We know they work through illnesses because of MW's "Bounce"commentary.

.

Nobody has said why Abby is hardly in it these days. To me, it just looks like it's because of the need for endless Tiva/Ziva scenes, but if there is another reason I'd be glad to hear it. As SB has been talking about an "Abby arc" it seems unlikely to me that PP's possible condition is the reason for us seeing so little of Abby. And I don't actually believe she'll be getting an arc anyway. She'll be lucky if she gets an episode at this rate when she barely gets a *scene* these days.

I have read everything on this board and i have to say most of you have the same feelings as me. Its like most of you are in my head and we are thinking the same thing. I do have to say tho that Ziva the great has takin tony place as Gibbs right had man and Abbys place as Gibbs favorite. I have heard they are trying to build up NCISLA SBs fav show. I dont watch LA but NCIS Season 1-5 are the best and as long as i have them. Im still waiting for MH to smack someone on the back of the head and say what were yah thinkin we werent broke but we are now fix it now.

Is there some reason that you don't watch LA? Did you watch it and then found it didn't appeal to you, or have you never watched it? I was just wondering, because I DO watch both shows and I like LA. It has taken a while, but the characters have started to grow on me. They act completely differently with each other than the original NCIS characters do; there is a totally different team dynamic.LA is definitely not "Clone NCIS". With the exception of Shane Brennan and David Bellisario (both really more production than writing), I can't see where there are any writers from the past few seasons of NCIS who have been working the new project, so any writing deficiencies that people perceive in this season of NCIS can't be blamed on writers splitting their time with LA.

tonyluvr wrote:

I don't understand how people can consider the complete destruction of characters as growth. Change is good. Devolution of the characters is bad. Change from the exciting jump cuts to the boring shots that EVERYONE does is bad. No one's saying they don't like change; they don't like destructive changes. At least that's me. I have to stop responding before reading other's posts, because Xanthe and others said this beautifully.

I agree with Xanthe and I since she said it better than I can I won't say anything about Ziva the Diva.

Tim. Of course he had to grow up, he can't stay the probie forever. But at the moment he is a poster boy for Marty Stu. The slim, elegantly clothed, computer savvy, smart super duper special agent who always has a smart remark about other agent's defficiencies. He is like a Tony of the first 3 seasons without heart and faults. Sorry, I tell it as I see it. People say that Tony teases Tim mercilessly and vice versa. But does Tim have Tony's back like Tony did whenever Tim got into REAL trouble (sister, shot detectiveetc)? Tony teased him about the smaller stuff, never about things that were truely important. So, does Tim have Tony's back? Nope, not at all. He got mean about the Jeanne op (and don't say Tony wasn't hurt by it!) teams up with Ziva whenever possible to put Tony down (which is, admitetly easy because the writers make him act like a total idiot), STILL takes every oportunity to rub his MIT / John Hopkins degreesunder noses.

What they should have done is (just some ideas) let McGee grow up some instead of becomming super agent. Not everyone of the team should have the same strenghts, that would be riddiculous. McGee as the computer geek who adds the technical angle to cases and who might be ideal to interrogate/interview certain kinds of suspects and victims but who sometimes gets in over his head would be great.

But I doubt that we will see something like this.

Don't get me started on Gibbs who can't seem to concentrate on doing his job and LEADING his team.

Caricature!Tony, Kindergarden!Abby....

That is not character developement, it is character defilement.

Sometimes I think a big boom ending, half the team being blown up and dying would be better than what is going on now.

michfans wrote:

I'm with you, really. Over the years all of the characters have undergone changes. Gibbs actually started out being more fun, but he got pretty intense after the whole ordeal with Ari and Kate. He might seem like he's mellowingand acting "old", but honestly, he IS getting older, and I think what we're seeing is a reasonable evolution for an aging character.Tony started out teasing McGee, but it seemed like he eventually got carried away with it (no small wonder McGee eventually had to start standing up for himself). It seems like this year McGee and Tony finally have something of a real working-partner chemistry going on - I like it. Eventually, I think, they will get Ziva straightened out (but I think maybe we will see more of her father again before the dust completely settles on that subject). Abby seems to appear less frequently this season, but I know Pauley got married and has been working on other projects, so that might be by her own choice. If this is the case, I would respect her wishes. I think Ducky will get his time in yet this year; they need to address the fact that the actress who played his mother has passes away, and I think they will address his mother's passing before the end of the season. Palmer should be about ready to graduate, so maybe he will get his day, too. Honestly, when I watch some of the episodes from seasons 1 & 2, they were pretty compartmentalized. Some of them really weren't that good, either. There have been some really good, fun, episodes this season (Jack Knife included), so I'm not terribly worried about the quality of the show. Actually, I think this season (so far) has been MUCH better than last season as a whole.

I'm sure we'd all respect PP's wishes but as none of us know what they are it's a bit tricky. I don't buy for a second that the actress wanted to do other things - Ibelieve SA wanted to work fewer hours back in S1 and 2 but she didn't get that wish so she left. This is a hit TV show - they don't accomodate people's wish to do other things by and large.PPis contracted to *them* - they won't want their product to suffer because the actress has a yen to do other projects. MH might get away with it but nobody else is likely to. McGee and Tony did have a very nice chemistry going - in ToC. Then when Ziva came back it was relegated again. Now I really don't see it beyond the same occasional glimpses we always used to see - even going back to S1.

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On that subject, I think the quality of S 1 - 3 was immensely better. Which episodes did you think weren't very good as a matter of interest? Because for the most part, I thought they were all pretty good. I liked the compartmentalisation - it's the reason the show took off on reruns because people didn't have to follow an arc and could dip in any time. I enjoyed that each one was self contained.

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When I think of the big classic NCIS episodes, hardly any of them are in S6 or 7 for me. I rate eps like The Good Wives Club, Bait, SWAK,Chained, High Seas, Mind Games, Call of Silence, Bloodbath and Twilight particularly highly. Once we start getting beyond S 1 - 3 there are fewer really great eps to my mind. I enjoyed "Requiem", "Heartland" and "Flesh and Blood" from S5, 6 and 7 and that's it. "Truth or Consequences" should have been up there because the narrative structure was so exciting, but was let down by the massive plothole which of and by itself stemmed from the need to squeeze Tiva ambiguity in there.