Criminal Minds

I agree with that, but I also think that 99% of guys fit into two categories: the ones that care too much/try too hard, and the ones that don't care enough. From how I see it, it is better to care too much. Should he back off a little, probably, but that could be included as some of the "kinks" that they are working out. I don't think that either of them were prepared for JJ to get pregnant, and now they need to have a talk about how they want to handle things. You know, get on the same page.

Jem, I agree with your comments about the pushing and boundries. But, in many situations, what falcon stated about men fitting in two categories seems more accurate. Not the correct or right behavior, just the more accurate regarding behavior. Seems to me when the "love" thing comes into play and the heart takes over, and the brain takes a back seat. There are those folks that probably do keep themselves in check, and what I mean is that they have alot of self-control. But, I have not seen many of those types of men and women, that when they are in love with someone, especially if during their relationship they felt it was mutual, when the other person starts to pull away for what ever the reason, that puts that person into "panic mode". Although I do think the reason should matter, I think what ppl react to is the "pulling away". And then, here comes the pushing, the boundries and the insecurities. Well and to throw a baby into the mix... I don't necessarily think that all that scenario applies, just that to a degree part of it may.If it were my man pulling back... all bets are off! LOL!LOL! (just kidding... kinda')

It mainly is a behavioral thing, and something that is easier to look at in general. I try to look at things like this objectively, analyze every angle and then come up with how I feel about it. Guys in general are very protective of a woman that they truly love. So why would Will be any different? I think the fact that he butts in a bit shows that he cares and makes him more realistic, since I think quite a few guys would do the same. Remember also, that guys think differently than girls. I think girls often expect too much out of guys, they expect him to show that he cares but also give them their space. There are very few guys that are perfect at that, and normal guys (like Will, and probably like myself whenever I decide that it is time to get a girlfriend) get confused. The good guys decide that it is better to care too much, the selfish ones decide that it is better to not care much at all. Now there are degrees of both behaviors, and most people fit in between the two extremes. I don't think that Will cares an extreme amount (which would be obssession, more or less), I think he cares about as much as most guys who truly care would. And when you add in the fact that JJ has made some avoidable mistakes in the relationship, like making it seem that she didn't care or, even worse, was ashamed of Will, who could blame the guy for trying to make her prove that she was serious about the relationship? And remember, this is a major JJ-fan talking, so if I can realize that she has made mistakes, then other people probably have no problem realizing them. So that is how I see it, but I think that it really is a guy/girl things (guys are going to understand how Will feels, and girls are going to understand how JJ feels). Hopefully they will work it out, though (they started to last season, but we haven't heard anything about Will this season).

Men and women do think differently I believe. Myself being a woman, always appreciate hearing a man's point of view, especially when it's in reference to a relationship or in matters of the heart. I particularly don't judge a man the same as a women. Not to excuse inappropriate behavior on either side. I just judge the motivation behind the behavior, because behavior speaks for itself.

So what is going to be the definition? Pushy or pushing away? What is what I want in a man? That he would be there for me that he understands me and really know that I too want space. And to really know and shows that he really cares about me. For him to say to his friends and family and mine as well that I am his girlfriend and his my boyfriend. I don't want someone that doesn't want other people to know we have a relationship I would feel he is ashamed of me. But we are not talking of me but of JJ. We all know that she is private. But that make have its risk too because instead of him been "pushy" he will "push away" look the other way. And then more problems coming. If he cares he is too pushy if he doesn't care his pushing away.Did you all see last night how Reid talked of the umbilical cord? Like so cute!

Whether we like the "Will" character or do not like him, whether we agree on how he behaves toward JJ or do not agree with it. The fact is Will was brought into the series more than likely to give a storyline to JJ's real life pregnancy. His assertive behavior toward her helped lend credibility to the storyline, considering we didn't even know she was dating anyone. Then, pretty suddenly, he shows up as her beau, bam, bam... we all know the rest. But after she was found out she was pregnant (in the series), his more aggressive pursuit of her shouldn't be judged the same as just a "boyfriend" would be . And I say that because he is no longer just her boyfriend. I know everyone on here will not agree with me, but the circumstances have changed. He is going to be a father, and to JJ's baby. I know they are not married, but none the less, he has a greater vested interest in JJ's life now, and I feel he has that right. ( I won't delve into the baby and marriage thing, as it is a no-no for me. Ppl's opinions get too heated, and it comes down to one's individual beliefs, morals, and sometimes religion. Sort of like politics.)I hope noone gets too angry over what I've written, as it is just my opinion. I just wanted to defend the Will character, he's not liked very much.

One thing we can probably assume. After expressing his concern about her safety (which I didn't have a problem with) in the field, they must have talked during that time they were together in Lo-Fi, when JJ asked Hotch if he needed her in the field. And, Will must have been willing to accept that she will still be in the field while she's physically able. Since JJ is still going on cases and I'm not getting any sense of strife from her, which I would expect if the issue was still a problem. I like to think they came to an understanding there. Will realizing that the decision has to be hers, JJ reassuring him that she's not going to put herself in any unnecessary danger beyond the scope of the job. One thing I think Will handled wrong was announcing that he asked JJ to marry him, since he knew that she was still undecided. That did feel a bit like pressure - tell everyone, have them happy for them, show how excited he is that he wants to share the news- that makes her feel a little guilty if she refuses. Even if he wasn't consciously trying for that, it still has that vibe. Or it could just be a bit of pressure for any answer, if one of the kinks was that her answer was no answer at all. In that matter, I think he handled things badly.And, I believe during In Heat, JJ actually did consider breaking up with him so I don't think his fears were unfounded. And, I'm not sure how I'd like it if someone I was dating wanted to keep our relationship a secret from her friends. Especially since it didn't seem like she ever explained that she didn't have any intention of telling the team. So, you're dating someone for a year, you probably expect at some point, they would naturally have told the people they're close to. And, if they don't, and you have no way of knowing why, I could see how you might wonder if they're ashamed of you and the relationship. And, length of time or not, it can't feel good to think someone is ashamed of you. And, Will was wrong in thinking that JJ was ashamed, but he also didn't have anything to correct that feeling, until the end when she admitted that her reason had to do with not wanting to admit that the relationship was real because she didn't want to risk getting hurt. So, actually, I don't think she committed emotionally until that moment. And, this is total fanwank (since we weren't able to see the relationship in progress) so I'm not saying JJ did this. But, if JJ held back some emotionally, because she was telling herself that what they had was just fun, but not a relationship, and Will picked up on that, I could see him feeling insecure. But, again, complete speculation on that issue.

It's things like announcing the proposal that makes it seem to me that he's dictating the pace and she's just kind of along for the ride. The one thing I will give him credit for is that during In Heat, when he did push her about their relationship, he at least kept that discussion private. But it was still the wrong time to have it. She was on a business trip, trying to solve his friend's murder. There is a time and a place and that wasn't really it. It was interesting to me that the only time she didn't hesitate in that discussion was when he asked if she wanted to break up and she started to say yes. I suppose I'm in the minority then, because if someone doesn't want to talk about our relationship that's their business. So long as they don't expect me to keep it hidden from my friends, I couldn't care less what they do or don't say. The only thing I do care about is how things are between us. I very easily see things from JJ's point of view, I'm naturally a very private person. There are people I've known for ten years that have never met my family and would likely be shocked to learn I have a sister. Doesn't mean I don't care about my friends, the fam just isn't their business. It would make me beyond crazy if someone kept trotting my private affairs into the public forum. I won't compromise myself for anyone, it took a long time for me to get comfortable with who I am, and I would never ask you to change who you are for me. Either it'll work or it won't and if it won't you can't force it. You both have to get there in your own time or it's going to crash and burn.

luvthejem wrote: I suppose I'm in the minority then, because if someone doesn't want to talk about our relationship that's their business. So long as they don't expect me to keep it hidden from my friends, I couldn't care less what they do or don't say. The only thing I do care about is how things are between us. I very easily see things from JJ's point of view, I'm naturally a very private person. There are people I've known for ten years that have never met my family and would likely be shocked to learn I have a sister. Doesn't mean I don't care about my friends, the fam just isn't their business. It would make me beyond crazy if someone kept trotting my private affairs into the public forum. I won't compromise myself for anyone, it took a long time for me to get comfortable with who I am, and I would never ask you to change who you are for me. Either it'll work or it won't and if it won't you can't force it. You both have to get there in your own time or it's going to crash and burn.

I'm a private person as well, LuvtheJem, which is why I understand both perspectives. I get why JJ wants to be private, but I also get Will because I'm a guy (and like I said, there are usually only two sides that it can go for a guy, caring too much or too little). So it is hard for me to pick a side, though I've chosen to support Will because I like his character and because I found the way that JJ was reacting as rather irrational.As for JJ considering her co-workers as actual friends, I think she does. She considers the team as family, and most people are friends with family or people they consider family. And she seems quite chummy with Prentiss (that seems a little more to me like a friendship than just two co-workers). I think her not wanting to tell them is more of what JEm was saying about the privacy thing, but it would have been nice for her to talk to Will about it so that he didn't think that she was ashamed of him (and trust me, a lot of guys in that situation would confuse her privacy with her not being serious about the relationship).I like the idea of Will picking up on the closeness of the team. Maybe he figured that JJ would be happier if she could tell someone that she is close to. The main thing is that I think they both could have handled the situation better, but no one has a perfect relationship and they are both good characters.

hnybunchz- That was kind of my point. He's supposed to love her. When you love someone, you love them as they are. You don't try to force them to change. If he's trying to make her open up, that's trying to change her. Falcon- What about her reaction was irrational? He's known her for a year, by now he hasn't picked up on the fact that she's a private person? On a different note, how crazy do you think JJ is going from not having coffee for how long now?

luvthejem wrote: On a different note, how crazy do you think JJ is going from not having coffee for how long now?

hnybunchz I agree with you. You enter into a relationship it is going to change both of you have know each other and adapt to what he/she thinks. For me its white or its black. Its not simple to say I am going to change my form of thinking or doing things and its hard. Im putting myself in Will's shoes. I'm going to feel that way she's ashamed of me and our relationship. A year had gone by and she didn't say anything to her co-workers aka "family." All I am saying is that she is happy, she has a boyfriend, she is pregnant and she wants to keep it a secret so nobody could know. I am a private person, and I have my formed opinions no one can change. And by simply stating that I have a boyfriend his name is Will and that I am happy but I am not going to give details on how it happened. That's not losing my privacy and how I manage who I am. But when you enter into a relationship you have to adapt to each others feelings and really see how to work things out.

The fact that she explained the situation as not wanting to tell anyone because that would make the relationship "real" seemed irrational to me. Like you said, it had been a year, shouldn't the relationship already be considered "real." I think that not wanting to tell people had less to do with JJ being private and more to do with her being afraid of a serious relationship, and Will pushed the issue because he wanted her to get over that fear. As for the coffee (which is a much less energy-draining convo for now, surprisingly), she seems to be handling it alright. After all, her sense of humor was in full gear during "Paradise," so I would think that would suggest her being alright.Watched the Fisher King Part 1 on A&E last night, and found myself laughing loudly at the first twenty minutes or so. It was very refreshing to see the team take a vacation and enjoy themselves for a change, even though it didn't last. I had seen it before, but it was a while back (when I first started watching the show and still didn't know the characters well, so it was a good memory refresher on how good the episode was).

hnybunchz wrote: LOL... Help jem, please throw me some rope... I floating away on my soapbox. LOL!!!