Greatest American Dog

Part I of II posts:I don't have time to read all four pages of responses, but I do think that this didn't have anything to do with herding. I think it had three simple goals.1. Problem solving. This was just to get through the maze.2. Socialization. Such as not getting nippy with unfamiliar pups.3. The ability to follow commands such as waiting when told to wait. If I'm not mistaken, JD was the only one who really used a sit and wait command. This is likely where Presley failed. I did feel for Star, but Bill had been told to "challenge" her, so he did, and then he got bit for it.

Part II of II posts:It's interesting to note that Andrew didn't bring any pups in, but wasn't in the bottom three. I'm not sure what to think of that. One thing is for certain, this is proof that there was absolutely ZERO discrimination here as technically Andrew and Bella did the absolute worst.Once again, there are no clear rules here and this bothers me. I don't understand what the judges are looking for. It appears to me that they are judging only slightly toward a dogs ability, but mostly on the owners interactions with the dog. It's very inconsistent. They say to challenge a dog, then when they do they get fussed at (as mentioned above). They tell them to let up when a dog isn't interested, then when they do they say the dog looks bored and it counts against them.It can be very frustrating, and I'm sure the contestants will agree with me.

It was actually Presley, the boxer, that did not shepherd any of the puppies in.Andrew, in fact, shepherded one of them back to Laurie. Maybe Galaxy's shepherding all 3 is an indicative of the communication he has with J.D. Maybe Andrew's doing well in the challenge despite his small size is evidence of Andrew's communication skill with both dogs and humans.Maybe Andrew's performance is proof positive of the old saying "Size doesn't matter"

LOL what show were you watching, the Olympics? Andrew most certainly did bring a puppy in, only one, but he brought one in and he did so happily and was happy to try again, despite the puppies being larger than he is! It is one thing to "challenge" a dog and another to run him or her into the ground. I am shocked that Bill would force Star to keep going when it was clear she was completely stressed out and done. She actually laid down. If he had done something like this during an agility trial, people would be appalled and yet because everyone here is convinced he can do no wrong, they are ready to overlook his obvious, blaring error. Star's run was actually painful for me to watch. I felt so sorry for her.

I agree with agiletrainer. There was no herding going on. I have working border collies and Leroy was not herding. The puppies followed Leroy because he went slowly and they were at the age that they would follow an adult dog. I don't think that Theresa thought about going slowly to keep the puppies with Leroy. She got lucky. She decided to keep him calm and do a low key recall and the puppies followed because they were able to. Leroy also did not herd at the end of the maze. Theresa sent him back into the maze because the puppies hadn't arrived yet, but he circled back out of the maze when Theresa's focus changed to the puppies and she stopped giving Leroy directions.

While Leroy may not have been herding the puppies by rounding them up, he was definitely "waiting" for them and looking back to see if they were coming, and going back to get them. And when they weren't with him, he ran back to see where they were and led the way. My border collie (who has never had any herding training) will do that with my little Aussie terrier. They will both be playing fetch, and my border collie will be faster getting her ball. She will start to run back to me, but then will turn around and check the progress of my little one. She will sometimes run a little back to see how the terrier is doing, and sometimes she will wait a little for my terrier to catch up, and then they run to me together. I don't consider that herding, per se, but she is definitely keeping an eye out on the progress. Leroy's actions reminded me of her.I do think that challenge was bound to be good for Leroy, but there have been other challenges that played to the strengths of some of the other dogs. I don't remember which one it was, but I remember Bill saying one of the challenges was right up Star's alley. And J.D., who routinely does disc dog routies with Galaxy, was thrilled about the dance challenge. So, yes, I think it definitely played to some dogs' strengths, but I have thought that of most of the challenges. I do think puppies are intimidating for a lot of dogs. And I agree that snapping is sometimes just the older dog's way of "teaching" a puppy its manners, in "dogspeak".I agree that these challenges are ridiculous, as are the judges. I hope next week that they don't force those poor dogs to "fly". I think they will be so scared. And I don't know what to think of the elephant!!

This challenge had nothing at all to do with herding. It also had nothing to do with "following commands." It appears that JD is the only one who was able to see his dog during the challenge. The others appeared to be completely bewildered as to where their dogs were. And unless Laurie and Beth Joy are 7ft tall, there is no way they'd be able to see their small dogs. I do think it did show problem solving skills much more than the ridiculous food behind the wall challenge from the week before.

I like Bill and Star a lot. But why do people keep saying about how "old" she is? Star is 7, just two years older than Leroy. But Galaxy is 9, two years older than Star. I don't think old age has really been a factor in the challenges. Personality has, and the dog's individual life experiences, and training, etc., but not old age. Speaking of age, they keep mentioning Presley's as being only one year old. But there were two other dogs that were only one also. Beacon was one of them, and I don't remember the other one. I was just curious why the show never mentioned it for the other two.

This seemed like more of a test of doggy charisma -- which dog were they willing to follow? Galaxy did well because the owner made her stop periodically and wait for the puppies to catch up. I felt sorry for Star -- she and Bill are my favorites. Clearly Star wanted nothing to do with the puppies. Frankly, I was ready for Bella Starlet and her owner to go.

CarolfromTX wrote: This seemed like more of a test of doggy charisma -- which dog were they willing to follow? Galaxy did well because the owner made her stop periodically and wait for the puppies to catch up. I felt sorry for Star -- she and Bill are my favorites. Clearly Star wanted nothing to do with the puppies. Frankly, I was ready for Bella Starlet and her owner to go.

My suggestion for a future event: Judge the dogs and owners on which team can best transfer human thought into doggy lingo that best expresses "spare us from these two barking 'bitches' and the 'dork.'"

I am actually going to disagree with the prevailing opinion of this challenge. I actually liked this a heck of a lot more than many of the previous ones. This is supposedly about America's greatest dog. Not America's most creative dog owner. "Winning" (and I use that term loosely ) the photo shoot and art painting had nothing to do with the dog. They were all about what the owner could think up. This at least had something to do with the dogs."This seemed like more of a test of doggy charisma -- which dog were they willing to follow?"First, so what?? Is there any reason that a dogs charisma shouldn't matter? Or for that matter their ability to socialize with puppies? Second, the dogs that did the worst did so not because of a lack of charisma for the most part but an inability to either make it through the maze reliably (Andrew/Bella Starlet) or because they went through the maze too quickly and their owners did/could not slow them down (Presley/Star). I would have more sympathy for the entire Bella Starlet/Andrew were too small and at a disadvantage argument if the dogs, with or without a puppy in tow, actually made it through the maze consistently. Andrew made it through once. And had one puppy in tow. The same number of pups Galaxy had his first time through. And more than Star his/her first time through. His problems seemed to have less to do with puppies following him and more to do with an inability to go through the maze. Bella never made it to the end, so who knows if they would have followed or not. In any case, it seems Bella, like Beacon last week, was starting to regress. It might be better for both owner and dog that they are leaving.The argument that Teresa had an advantage because "She got fresh puppies" seems a bit silly as there were at least 9 puppies there and she appeared to go last (Although with editing, who knows for sure). I doubt they used the same set of 3 twice in a row with any of the contestants. But it also appears (again, editing can be deceiving) that 8-9 seconds in Leroy backtracks to make sure the puppies are still with him. Did she luck out to a certain extent? You bet. Thats life and enters into just about everything you do.

Boy, people sure are attributing a LOT to these dogs, they weren't "shepherding" anything! None of the dogs had any CLUE that they were supposed to "lead" the puppies out, it was totally a matter of which dogs the puppies decided to follow which mainly was a function of the size and speed they moved. Leroy did interact more with the puppies as well compared to other dogs, which certainly helped. Again, a big advantage for a younger dog that was more willing to play with the puppies (it has little to do with charisma, and more to do with their age, and any past experience with puppies, not to mention the dog's size). The puppies followed Galaxy pretty well too, and she clearly didn't interact with them either (also being an older dog). I still don't get what dealing with 3 rather large puppies has to do with a dog being "great"! As for Leroy working at that speed because of Teresa, again, I think that's a hard conclusion to come to on what we've seen. That just seems to be the speed Leroy typically works, he did a recall at the same speed for the balance beam challenge which helped him win there as well, trotted to the food in the last episode even once he got around the wall, and was out very early in the obedience challenge in episode 2 I believe it is (where he almost lost in the first round which was a short recall, he heads off in another direction at first). Typically dogs that are trained for fast recalls don't need to be "revved" up, they will work at that speed regardless of what the handler does. With an actual trained herding dog, you use commands that tell the dog what speed to move, when to go fast and when to "walk up" slowly on the stock. In this case, it just seemed to be luck in terms of the speed he worked, I didn't hear her using an "easy" or anything that really told the dog to go slow, so it's hard for me to attribute that much control to them. Also, when Teresa tells him to go back for the puppies, he runs right by the first without even looking at it, and barely glances at the others as they go by him....it's pretty clear the dog has no idea that these puppies have anything to do with his task. Only Presley came at all close to doing that, and even then, it would be hard to say that he knew he was going back for the puppies (versus just going back for some reason). Just a note on herding...herding dogs don't shove or nudge, typically there is no contact at all between the dog and the stock (unless a sheep/cow/etc. refuses to move in which case the dog may "grip" or bite them to get them moving.)

The smaller dogs have been at a disadvantage from day one in most of the challenges. Come on, let's face it, this was not a competition for small dogs. I'm not really even sure why they invited the small ones except for show and entertainment and the appearance of being fair, when all they have done is show how blatantly unfair it has been to them on almost every turn. We have 4 big dogs and 1 small dog left. Who do you think will win? No matter what he does I can almost guarantee it won't be the small one unless the challenges change considerably.

What does this have to do with anything. People I'm here to tell you that yes, you can find dogs that are quicker in learning that other dogs but all dogs can be trained! It's the owner, It's the owner, it's the owner! You need a good coach (dog trainer) and good communication and you can do *anything* with your dog!