Greatest American Dog

Lily, thank you. They look pretty much the same now...at 16 months old...just bigger and older.I too think that in most of the challenges the judges are looking at the owners and their manner of working with the dog than at the dog itself.Hey, guys, someone was wondering....if you unclick the disable HTML box below the text box all the extra garbage goes away.

I believe that Leroy is the border collie they speak of. Not Galaxy.

I had the names muddled for a while. Actually, neither looks totally like what I think of as a classic BC but as I was reminded last night, there is a lot of variation even within pure breds of a single breed...or a single litter as in the case of my girls.I have noticed last night and today that Leroy looks more classic BC (what I think of) in some photos (angles) than others. I guess it was the odd angle shots that had me wondering. Sometimes he looks more like Galaxy's mixed breed traits.

absolutely totally agree...and the judges are professionals....???? to put retiever puppies in with the small beeds was horrific, at most...can you imagine if elvis was still on competion? i have a mini fox (just recently adopted from a shelter)... i call her mini fox TERROR.was not at all fair - the worst of the competitons for these animals so far....these alledged professionals should be ashamed of themselves. i don't know of a animal outreach or ressue who wouldn't agree

My first comment anywhere on the web.The problem with the puppy maze was the same problem repeated in each test and is what this show is about. Give them something to do that doesn't come naturally to most dogs and put the owner to the test to challenge your dog and yourself to try to accomplish these tasks. The older and more solitary a dog is the less tolerant they will be of any puppy. The smaller dogs have a different challenge with the puppies being big. I see the biggest disadvantage was with Bill even with his extra time it was clear that Star was stressed and didn’t want anything to do with those puppies. She ignored them as all the dogs did but he kept sending her through the maze again and again and again and Star was so stressed she exhibited those signs licking of her mouth, lying down, etc. Bill really wanted to win and pushed Star harder than he would have in normal circumstances, but I think he knows he has a fighting chance at the prize and he values what hard work can accomplish. JD and Galaxy were superior in this exercise. He had complete control of his dog at all times. His dog did nothing more than any other dog did except to be directed to stop and allowed the puppies to catch up to Galaxy all the while with J D calling the puppies just like he did during the acclimation period. Go back and watch. He does nothing with Galaxy and everything with his voice during the acclimation period and the puppies seeing they get lots of love and attention if they go to that voice. That really paid off. They had his dog to help them find that voice but that was nothing more that the dog sitting and waiting for them to catch up. Nothing against Teresa and Leroy either they did fine but JD was the clear winner when I watch the show.Reality shows have infiltrated our lives. Some are much easier at least for me to watch such as the ones where people do their "real" jobs such as Next Food TV Star, Sheer Genius, Project Runway. This allows a much more even playing field and I find competition to be better because there isn't an obvious winner from the gate. I enjoy GAD because I've discovered the joy of rescue companions in my life and how incredibly rewarding it is to have the bond you can have with your dog by training them.The problem with all shows even GAD is that they like BIG RATINGS and to get that you have to have drama. They always have to have people on the show that are the "pain" to the "fan fav". It generates interest and that generates revenue with their commercials. I would love to see the show focus more on trained dogs and their owners like Star, Galaxy and Andrew and don't even have teams like David and Elvis, Elan and Kenji or Beth Joy and Bella Starlet.

I'm not saying Leroy was shepherding. I'm not saying Leroy was herding. But Leroy most certainly DID go back to see if the puppies were coming. He may not have known that was what he was supposed to do. But he did do that. He did *not* run straight through to the finish befor going back. I watched it 3 times. He turned around before he got to the end, while still in the maze, and before he saw Teresa and before she said anything and he went back to the puppies, then turned around again in front of them to go out. And when he got to Teresa, and she said something like, 'There's a puppy!", he turned around and, yes, he ran past the first puppy, as it was there already. He went by it and went back to the other two, then turned around when he got to them, and ran side by side with the last one to Teresa. Was he running back to "get" the puppies? I don't know any other reason he would be running back just to the point of the puppies before turning around. Perhaps he didn't understand exactly what it was all about. But he did a really great job. In the other challenges, I'm not sure the other dogs that won always knew what they were doing, whether it was "dancing" or anything else. So why is there so much criticizing of Leroy's performance? I happen to think he did go back for those puppies, even if he didn't know why or what everything was about.

He ran back because Teresa pointed back in and gave him a command that he interpreted to mean to go back...but had no idea for what. He is starting to turn to go back to her *before* the last two puppies come in view (watch it closely, he turns in the opposite direction and never sees them) and it's clear that his actions (going back into the maze) had nothing to do with the puppies finishing it. They don't go out "side-by-side" the puppies were running and passed him on the way (at which point he first notices that they are even there, and stops to give them a sniff). I'm not criticizing his performance, but he simply did not show any understanding of the puppies being part of his task, any more than any other dog did, and mainly succeeded due to coming through the maze at a slower pace...but still at a fast enough clip that they went into "follow" mode.

Hi, all! My first post, too! Much of what I want to say has already been covered, but my basic question about this otherwise very entertaining show is the odd choice of challenges that the judges have set up to measure very different breeds. I will grant that it must be almost impossible to measure a Maltese against a BC, but even knowing that, the judges don't seem to be very forgiving. Victoria (I think it was) actually chided Laurie because Andrew nipped at one of the puppies, whereas, as someone has mentioned here, I think that Andrew was appropriately disciplining a larger puppy that was about to run right over him. I almost felt that Victoria was guilty of anthropomorphizing Andrew a bit, putting a "good" or a "bad" value on his nipping, instead of seeing it for what it was: a typical canine disciplinary measure, meted out to a wayward youngster. Dogs have no other way of letting another dog know when they are getting out of hand--there are no canine "time outs." Andrew gave one nip, and then returned to being his happy-go-lucky self. Also, I agree with the small vs. large dog disparity with several of the challenges. The hedge maze and the "find the food" maze with the large walls illustrated how lost the little dogs were when confronted with a physical obstacle that was so large as to be insurmountable, in their eyes. That was a severe design flaw in the challenges, IMHO. And since only two dogs out of the entire group successfully completed the maze challenge at all, I question the intelligence of the design of the event to begin with. I don't think this was necessarily a "herding" challenge alone, per se--there was more going on than that, among the traits looked for being how well all of the contestants' dogs got along with new faces, but even so, Victoria even misread some of the things going on. She accused Bill of "calling Star through the maze too fast," several times, when, in fact, Star was racing through the maze as fast as she could of her own accord, not wanting to have anything to do with the puppies. And yet, it seems kind of sad to me to fault Star, who is otherwise such an incredibly willing-to-please partner to Bill, for simply not liking kids of her own kind. Finally, the other aspect of the show that makes me shake my head is that the judges--especially the two females--can never seem to agree with each other on anything. If they are doing this just for the sake of TV drama, then sorry girls, but you just come off looking stupid. One of them loves a photo. The other one hates it. And when Wendy told Ron that Tillman's photo was "The worst photo of a bulldog that she's EVER seen," or something similar...?! Good lord. Get out more, lady. Are we really supposed to trust the judgment of these three dolts? They hate a dog's painting because...? Oh, good lord. Don't get me started on THAT one...And next week, what? Your dog didn't parachute well enough? Gravity was too strong for Star? Presley is allergic to elephants? It's like a train wreck...I can't look away.

Oh my God!!!Agile are you trying to tell us all that you a viewer, can communicate with Leroy and he tells you his interpretations of what Teresa, his owner, who has constant contact with him everyday, and relay themTO us the rest of the viewers.I can just see the advertisements now.AGILETRAINER, DOGGIE PSYCHIC TO THE STARS!

tink517 wrote: Agile are you trying to tell us all that you a viewer, can communicate with Leroy and he tells you his interpretations of what Teresa, his owner, who has constant contact with him everyday, and relay themTO us the rest of the viewers.

I guess the bottom line is that the judges could see what was happening...the entire run of each dog. We are subject not only to camera changes but editing. None of us is a mind reader of dog or owner. We can each only subjectively judge what we see. In some cases we see what we want to see. In other cases we can only guess what really caused a dog to move one way or the other...look one way or the other, etc. and as with witnesses of a crime we all see different things. Some of us even stay with the same interpretation even after reviewing the video. Our first impression is hard to shake at times.It's just interesting to me that the judges now seem to possibly know things that happen when they are not around..while in the first couple of shows there were things they SHOULD have been able to see before judging who was or was not a good dog owner. Heaven knows we screamed bloody murder a few times here in the forums...maybe TPTB listened!

In defense of agiletrainer, I *completely* agree with you on the explanation of why/what Leroy was doing. You don't have to be a psychic for God's sake you just need to know how to read body language in a dog! Also, if you have trained dogs (as agiletrainer obviously has) for 10+ years (like myself) then yes . . . you can tell what Leroy is doing . . . very easily I might add. You actually worded it perfectly in your description of his body language and his interpretation of Teresa. Seriously, I wouldn't change a word or disagree on any of it! Right on. No psychic abilities needed!

dianne710:You don't need a farm or stock dog for them to know how to herd properly. Pet dogs herd improperly because they are not taught how to herd (not a big deal) but usually it's an energy outlet to them and it is done in the wrong manner. However for the dog this is rewarding, hence the behavior becomes fun and this is what they do. There isn't a lot of training for herding dogs other than teaching them left, right, back off, get those, etc. But the instincts are all the same. If a dog is shoving another dog they are bullying, even if they aren't being "mean" per se. But that is absolutely *not* herding, it's bullying. Now if your dog allows the shoving then your dogs doing the shoving are getting rewarded hence why they do it often, if they do. I suggest a really good read: Turid Rugaas's book on dog body language.

samjenssen wrote: Who constructed the puppy maze test? This is the question that was posed in originators entry.The answer is out there.There being somewhere back in the topics if you search for ityou will find the answer to your question.I'm too lazy myself to go back and look for my originalposting with the answer but I'll give you part of the name,if I remember correctly, is Daniel, as in Lion's Den.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 08/22/2008 19:11:27

Just went back and did a quick check on my memory,while the Daniel might work on the web.That would raise the level of difficulty too high.McMillan, as in McMillan and wife, is a better clue.P.S. - Since the forum on her website seems to be disabled at this time, you'll have to find anotherway to contact her directly.