Greatest American Dog

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 08/22/2008 19:21:51

itsnotthedog wrote: Of course a small dog can't pick up a 5lb dumbell as swiftly or easily as a large dog but I can tell you that my 10 lb JRT has picked up some insanely large objects to compete with other dogs. It *can* be done for some dogs!

Thanks for the notes of support on my comments about Leroy, I feel out here by myself sometimes arguing for logic!

I had to laugh at this post of yours earlier about your JRT....well, we all KNOW those dogs are insane!

Do you know of Susan Garrett? Her first JRT Shelby was famous in agility because her reward after a run was not food, not a toy, but a rock! It was her favorite thing in the world. JRTs truly are in a class by themselves.But I do think it's good not to put limitations on our dogs and what they can or can't do. A friend of mine does weight-pulling with her sheltie. Everyone always laughs when they see this little dog come out to compete with all the bully-breeds...but by the time he is done, the whole audience is madly cheering at how awesome a puller he is! P.S. To fix the encoding on your posts, just click the Edit button and then Submit it again. It should look right the second time.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 08/22/2008 19:53:53

OH ... you know what would be entertaining? ... put each of the judges in a room with three rambunctious preschoolers and tell them they have to make the preschoolers accomplish some complicated task in 5 minutes. Oh, I SO would watch that.

agiletrainer wrote:

itsnotthedog - Of course a small dog can't pick up a 5lb dumbell as swiftly or easily as a large dog but I can tell you that my 10 lb JRT has picked up some insanely large objects to compete with other dogs. It *can* be done for some dogs! [/quote wrote: Thanks for the notes of support on my comments about Leroy, I feel out here by myself sometimes arguing for logic!

Maybe a better pre position might have been without.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 08/22/2008 20:05:55

tink517 wrote: Maybe a better pre position might have been without.

Why are there all these snide comments from you to this poster? He clearly is very knowledgable about dogs and has not insulted you that I can see. I enjoy the insight of the more expeirned trainers on this forum and it bother me to see them treated so poorly by other people. If this is the most constructive thing you can addt to the discussion perhaps it should be just sent privately

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 08/23/2008 00:13:57

ITSNOTTHEDOG,Not to be snippy but what is it about DEAF AND BLIND that you don't understand? They HAVE to shove her.(said in the kindest possible exasperated way)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 08/23/2008 00:38:49

Dianne - I can understand you being annoyed but I didn't read it to mean that your dogs *shouldn't* use physical force, just that it wasn't herding. Not entirely sure I agree though. It certainly isn't what we would traditionally consider herding, and not something you'd typically ever see a trained dog on stock doing, but really anything a dog does that influences the movement of the stock could be considered herding.

They look after her and guide her from place to place. I can say,"Go get Maggie, bring her in the house." (if they aren't already with her) and they do it. In the "common" usage of the term, to non-pros like me, that's herding. We're just quibbling between common usage and prefessional usage of the word.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 08/23/2008 03:18:55

They look after her and guide her from place to place.

Yup, and that to me is herding! Certainly any definition of the word in the dictionary would agree. Die-hard herding people can be a tough bunch though...there are quite a few out there that won't even bother with dogs like mine, because they aren't border collies and they don't consider them worth spending time on. But boy, I sure do love to watch those folks work their dogs! Seeing a shepherd controlling two dogs at once from 1/2 mile or more away with just a whistle...it's impressive stuff. My newest puppy is from herding champion stock, so I am looking forward to seeing what he can do! But I merely dabble in the sport, so can only watch and be awed by what the top trainers do.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 08/23/2008 04:43:10

Agile, Congratulations on your new puppy. May you have many happy years togetheras a team. Had a Collie once, Beautiful loving animals, did have a problem with hispulling the wallpaper off the walls in spots during the day, I guess he was likea Brittany on this one, he finally got tired of having to do the "same job" over andover again. As my husband named him Bubba, I would just sigh and verbally express my exasperation, and repair the damage done that day.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 08/23/2008 04:49:51

accck. I responded and then everything locked up and the whole post is lost in space. I'll try to reconstruct it...I think experts in almost any field can be pretty hardnosed...propriatary (sp?) ..as though they want to keep out the riff raff...lolI've never seen herding in real life but really have enjoyed watching what I've seen on tv. The way Galaxy sits and stays *instantly* even under very odd circumstances blows me away. As to Victoria jumping all over he owner (JD?) I can't really judge as I don't know what he does other than the scruff grabbing thing. I guess I need to go back and watch all the shows again. IMO, Galaxy is the best "already trained" dog on the show...but I really dislike JD's demenor with people...it's hard for me to root for the team. With another owner I'd have a hard time deciding between Star and Bill, Leroy and Teresa, and Anyone but JD (or Beth!!!) and Galaxy.To me dogs are a lot like children. Some need a firmer manner than others. Generally, love, praise, and yes, treats go a long way to developing a well trained, secure, and happy (not fearful of it's owner) dog. What do you think??By the way, Victoria get's great results on her show (altho they wouldn't show failures, would they?? lol) but what a twit she is on GAD!

Dianne, Will you "adopt" me? I promise to behave.

As long as you don't pee on the carpet....LOLOL!!!!!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 08/23/2008 09:48:41

dianne710 wrote: accck. I responded and then everything locked up and the whole post is lost in space.

I've learned to make a copy (ctrl-C) of my posts before I submit them just in case...this forum is definitely very flakey!

The way Galaxy sits and stays *instantly* even under very odd circumstances blows me away.

Yeah, that is so critical in herding, although it can be a totally different thing when the dog has sheep in front of them! It used to drive me crazy that my wonderful, biddable sheltie that had top-level obedience titles, would get on sheep and just totally ignore me! I'll tell him to "down" and he'd look at me like "Are you nuts?? There are SHEEP here!" But they soon learn that when they don't listen, they *don't* get to herd. But until then, it's some good exercise for the handler to try and block the dog from getting around you to the sheep!

I guess I need to go back and watch all the shows again. IMO, Galaxy is the best "already trained" dog on the show...but I really dislike JD's demenor with people...it's hard for me to root for the team.

I agree with all of this...but the funny thing is, he sneers at Laurie for using food, but he's a *frisbee* trainer! That's R+ training! When he did the dance routine, he had a tennis ball the whole time. That's clearly a motivator for his dog, so NO DIFFERENT than carrying food around with you all the time. I have no doubt he uses corrections when he feels they are warranted, but the bulk of frisbee dog training is basically R+/P- type of training (do what I ask, and you get the disc). And unlike training with food for something like obedience, where the dog eventually has to learn to work without the primary motivator present, with frisbee dogs, you get to bring the motivator in the ring with you. So it showed me he really hasn't a clue about reward-based training, and I wish Laurie had called him on it!

Let's see if I am doing the "quote" thing correctly...If I don't, well...you know what you wrote!I agree with all of this...but the funny thing is, he sneers at Laurie for using food, but he's a *frisbee* trainer! I think my girls would prefer the frisbee to food treats! That's R+ training! When he did the dance routine, he had a tennis ball the whole time. That's clearly a motivator for his dog, so NO DIFFERENT than carrying food around with you all the time. I'd forgotten about the tennis ball but yes, I noticed it at the time. he really hasn't a clue about reward-based training, and I wish Laurie had called him on it! He's definitely not a rocket scientist which would be totally forgivable if it were not for the cocky attitude. As an old goat, it really bugs me. LOL When the judges slap him down he looks so totally stunned and "What's wrong with you people?"

I actually kind of like JD, and that's surprising because usally arrogant people set my teeth on edge. The thing that impresses me is how incredibly well trained Galaxy is. That sort of thing takes persistence and patience even with the most malleable dog.

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