Latest posts for the topic "Week 9 LOYALITY "

Week 9 LOYALITY

genevafromva — GMT

OK....Lets guess who does the best who does the worst on the challenge of LOYALITY this coming week...and maybe a BRIEF reason!I'll go first....I think Andrew will do the absolute best and Presley will do the worst...bless his heart.I think Andrew will listen whole heartedly to Laurie and be unbothered by JD antics...I think Presley will get overly excited and be distracted from Travis commands...

Re:Week 9 LOYALITY

elelki — GMT

It depends on what-all they do in the show. The part we got a glimpse of, someone else trying to lure the dog out of a stay? Andrew will ace that one 'cause he's done it a gazillion times in practice and he knows that staying still is what will impress the heck outta his human. Obedience competitors actually train for this, or rather they do if they want to be winning obedience competitors! Presley will flunk that one, bless his heart as you said yourself -- it's not a lack of loyalty, he knows that Travis is still gonna be there for him! Galaxy will also pass the test, probably. I looked some promo videos of her frisbee/trick team (the K9 Kings) and she understands totally that to get the ball, you gotta keep your eye on JD. I *think* he has taught his dogs to ignore food, it would be sensible for what he does, but I'm not sure. Were the handlers allowed to talk to the dogs, tell them to stay? If so she won't be challenged, he'll tell her and she'll know that the food is like the ball and like the frisbee (wait for it... wait for it... and when JD says GO! it'll be ten thousand times better than it would have been without him!). She may very well just keep her eye on him though, ignoring the food because it's not JD -- those two are tight. Leroy could go either way, especially if tempted with toys, but I'm betting he'll stay for the same reason Andrew will (he's been taught it long before). For extra points, Leroy will bark his head off at some point in this week's show. So unless you're taking points off for barking (or unless someone can get hold of a sheep... hey Leroy would you like to come herd the sheep?) good luck eliminating any team with this one!I'm not sure how else you could test loyalty... This could be interesting!And dagnabbit, it just isn't going to be the same without that little orange dog.

Re:Week 9 LOYALITY

lily_lou — GMT

loyalty is a wonderful quality and we tend to highly regard it in our dogs because they are so extremely good at it.. but personally i don't necessarily think it is a true test of which dog is the greatest.. i have found from my own observations that the most socialized all-around great dogs are those who can change hands without having seperation anxiety from their owners.. my neighborhood takes the approach of "it takes a village to train a dog", all the dog owners join forces and help each other.. the result is an awesome pack of dogs who get along very well and love life.. newcomers at our beach are amazed at how gently they interact and how welcoming of new dogs and people they are and how enthusiasticly they embrace life and remind us to do the same.. so i'm not sure i'd say that the most loyal dog is the greatest dog..but soapbox aside, i do think andrew will "win" this one.. he trusts laurie with his life and would literally climb mountains for her but doesn't seem to trust anyone else any further than he could throw them.. leroy might be at a disadvantage because of his friendliness.. i remember his eagerness to greet the host threw a glitch in his iq test even though he is clearly one of the smartest dogs there.. presley has gotten so used to having the whole household having a hand in his training that he will probably be very conflicted about who to go to if asked to choose.. certainly his affection for travis is the strongest bond but his obedience would probably extend to any one of them who asks him to come.. (i mean that bond is stronger than his bond to other housemates, i don't necessarily mean theirs is the best owner/dog bond in general).. galaxy i am just eager to see how her injury is recovering and if she is not in pain then that is good enough for me to be happy with whatever performance she gives

Week 9 LOYALITY

lily_lou — GMT

i noticed there was an accidental duplicate of this thread and two seperate discussions going.. this one is staying on topic so i thought i'd bump it so the other one can be buried to avoid confusion..

Re:Week 9 LOYALITY

harpowins — GMT

lily_lou wrote: but soapbox aside, i do think andrew will "win" this one.. he trusts laurie with his life and would literally climb mountains for her but doesn't seem to trust anyone else any further than he could throw them..

I don't know if you can really assume this based on what we've been shown. Certainly one can say he definitely seems to prefer Laurie to everyone else and defer to her, but does that mean he is distrustful of everyone else? I don't think one has anything to do with another. He is a therapy dog, so if he does this job well, that certainly means he must be friendly. Personally from what we saw in the previews I think it might finally be a decent challenge. If your dog will immediately run away from you to go to the highest bidder who bribes you with toys and food, how strong is your bond? And definitely the size of the dog will not be an issue either - finally. I'm looking forward to this one!

Week 9 LOYALITY

lily_lou — GMT

well i'm not really "assuming" anything because i know this show has been packed very full of creative editting, i'm just speculating from what little we've been shown.. but you do make a good point and i'm looking forward to it too, it seems like it will be a refreshing break from last week's risk taking..

Re:Week 9 LOYALITY

agiletrainer — GMT

This really isn't a test of loyalty, from what we saw on the short preview. It's a test of obedience proofing with distractions. I could take a dog that I have absolutely no relationship with and teach it to do this in maybe a couple weeks at most. Dogs will succeed at this not because they are loyal but because they've been trained that if they break a stay they 1. won't get the reward they think they will get and/or 2. they will get corrected. Obedience trainers do this exercise all the time so I'd predict Andrew will do well at it for sure, Galaxy and Leroy perhaps. Not sure Presley has much chance, but he surprised me this week, he may surprise me again! It really has little to do with a dog being friendly or not trusting people. My last sheltie was a total food hound and would mooch food from anyone, but was totally rock-solid on a stay and wouldn't move for anything. Neither of these though have anything to do with "loyalty". That is really a quality that can't really be "tested" IMO. But at least this is a little more of a real, legitimate challenge for a dog than the disaster that has been the last few weeks!

Week 9 LOYALITY

lily_lou — GMT

those are good points too agile.. i guess it would seem the only way to test loyalty might be that when the dog is "off duty" and nothing is being requested/required of him, then who does he go to when he's just looking for his best friend to spend time with.. loyalty can be seen more in "down time" than during challenges.. whose lap is he resting his head on? who is he looking at as if she hung the moon? whose bed is he hogging? who does he turn to when he's afraid or in pain? those are the sorts of questions i would be asking if i were wanting to determine the level of loyalty between a man/woman and his/her dog..

Week 9 LOYALITY

lily_lou — GMT

ps, what a bummer that the team who totally fits that description made their farewell lap last week

Re:Week 9 LOYALITY

agiletrainer — GMT

i guess it would seem the only way to test loyalty might be that when the dog is "off duty" and nothing is being requested/required of him, then who does he go to when he's just looking for his best friend to spend time with..

That really isn't loyalty though. A confident, trusting dog actually doesn't need to be constantly next to their owner all the time...if they do, that often indicates issues with shyness and/or separation anxiety. I can use my sheltie as an example again. As a young dog he was shy and would often cling next to me all the time. Given a choice, he would always lay by my side. As an older dog, having many years of experience in the world and having full confidence and trust that I would not leave him, when he was "off duty" and not working, that's when he would go around and visit other people, making whatever friends he could. The instant he saw me stand up to go, he was by my side in an instant, wanting to make sure he would not be left behind. I often had people run him in agility, and he did it with such enthusiasm and joy that some people might think he didn't care at all who ran him. But at the start line, he would also look around to see where I was and make sure I was watching him go (just like a kid checks to make sure Mom is watching! ) And if other people tried to get him to do something he didn't particularly care for, he'd always turn his head and ignore them. There was no doubt whatsoever that he was 100% my dog and as "loyal" as any dog can possibly. How it is shown outwardly just varies greatly with every dog and their owner, and also from breed to breed.

Week 9 LOYALITY

lily_lou — GMT

i don't mean a feeling of "having to" be close, i mean who would they "choose" to be with, as who is their favorite person whom they would do anything for.. who as you say they would not want to leave behind at the end of the day whether physically joined at the hip or not.. i don't mean dependency.. a sense of partnership i guess is what i am trying to describe, and i'm not sure if that is entirely sunanimous with loyalty or not.. it's another one of those things where we use a human word to describe a dog quality and it can lose something in the translation..

Week 9 LOYALITY

lily_lou — GMT

maybe i am thinking more of love than of loyalty but i think the two overlap..

Re:Week 9 LOYALITY

agiletrainer — GMT

Well, again, I don't know how you can separate "loyalty" from "dependency". Outwardly they can often appear the same. It's only the owner that *truly* knows what their relationship is. I definitely have had a much stronger bond and relationship with some of my less "clingy" dogs. Can "love" be quantified? And should it?

Week 9 LOYALITY

lily_lou — GMT

no it can't be quantified.. i wouldn't wish to eliminate anyone if they were being judged by whether they love their dogs (and visa versa) or not.. it's evident to me that they all do.. so i guess i just don't really understand this challenge but i guess we'll see what they're looking for on wednesday..

Re:Week 9 LOYALITY

genevafromva — GMT

Agile....What is your idea of LOYALITY? And how would you base a show on it?

Re:Week 9 LOYALITY

kayciandme — GMT

Loyal: faithful to a private person to whom fidelity is dueLoyalty: the quality or state or an instance of being loyalMaybe in CBS' opinion putting your dog in a sit/stay or down/stay while having others attempt to get your dog to disregard your command is showing loyalty as described in a dictionary.However, I don't know of one dog that can read a dictionary but I do know several great dogs that are loyal to their companions that would break a sit/stay if distracted by another handler giving another command. Search/rescue dogs are trained to take command of another handler, agility dogs, etc...Once again we are left with are these true test for these dogs?????

Re:Week 9 LOYALITY

agiletrainer — GMT

I would define loyalty in a dog as attentiveness and responsiveness to the handler, without any other factors in play. For instance, a dog that is responsive because a handler has food is not really being loyal. Likewise a dog that always stays close to the handler due to fear of everyone else is not really loyal either (although they may be as *well* but their behavior is more fear-based than due to loyalty). A dog can be 50 yards away from the handler, and even interacting with other people and/or dogs and yet at the same time completely attentive to the handler and will immediately respond to them if need be. Just to be clear....I don't mind the exercise shown in the previews at all, it's a challenge I *love* to do with my own dogs as a proofing exercise for obedience work. Once they learn the "game" you can almost see the determination in them that nothing anyone can do will cause them to break, and they get so excited when they "win" and get the reward, be it food, praise, etc. My problem with how they showed it though is in allowing the handlers to talk to the dogs throughout. Pay close attention to the tone of voice they use when this airs. If a handler is basically using a threatening, harsh tone in telling the dog to "stay", they are basically saying "stay...or else!" If the dog then stays, are they doing so out of loyalty? Or fear of a correction? A better test for loyalty might be something like this. Have the dog and handler come into a room, the dog is let off leash and the handler sits in a chair, and must look down or away from the dog (perhaps read a book). The "distractor" then starts to play with the dog, or offer it treats, brings in another dog to play with them, whatever. The handler is not allowed to speak at all. At some point, once the dog is sufficiently distracted, the handler is signaled to get up and leave the room. A "loyal" dog would be one that would follow the handler rather than be left behind with the wonderful distractions. Again, though, this would not be a 100% accurate test, it would assume you have a dog that is confident enough to interact with other people or dogs. But it would at least be a little more accurate test of simple dog-handler bond than an obedience exercise when the handler can use tone of voice to influence the dog's behavior.

Re:Week 9 LOYALITY

realitynot — GMT

None of the challenges have had anything to do with the so-called concept they were supposed to be testing. What the hell did the painting challenge have to do with the dog's intelligence? Or the photo challenge to do with the dog's personality? Zippo. Personally I don't think you can test a dog's "loyalty" in a challenge. It has to do with every day life and your relationship with that dog on a daily basis. Everyone loves Bill and Star but no one really knows what their relationship is really like. We know how it's been portrayed in the snippets we've seen on television. For all we know Beth Joy and Bella Starlet's relationship is the closest of them all. It's been portrayed as freaky and weird, but how do we really know that? We don't. This competition has nothing to do with the owner's and their dog's true relationship. It has to do with how these owners and their dogs relationships have played on television.

Week 9 LOYALITY

lily_lou — GMT

this is a good discussion, thanx for starting it geneva yesterday i was quite humbled to discover that i apparently don't even know the meaning of the word loyalty, but it turns out i guess i just couldn't put it into words because the way you all describe it is the way i see it too, and i agree that it can't be truly tested by one isolated challenge.. if it "has to" be simplified into one incident, then i agree that the challenge agile describes would be a good one.. a dog so in tune with you and bonded to you that when you get up to leave they stop whatever they're doing to join you without you having to even verbalize "c'mon, let's go".. loyalty perhaps from a dog's point of view is "who do i belong to and/or who belongs to me", not possessiveness necessarily but an undying commitment/devotion to the relationship/partnership.. ps but i do believe that if they had the words any dog could define loyalty better than any of us could because it is something they truly excel at understanding and executing!

Week 9 LOYALITY

d32300 — GMT

If I was making bets on this!I think the top 2 will be Galaxy and Andrew as they are very well trained in obedience.

Week 9 LOYALITY

lily_lou — GMT

i agree that it is more of a test of obedience amidst destraction (from what little bit the previews show) than loyalty, which i do feel is too much a part of the overall relationship to be separated out and judged in one moment.. but then, we know by how they defined "trotting" as "charging" that they do tend to exaggerate their word usage for dramatic effect.. their vocabulary is as creative as their editting! so i suppose they want to define obedience as loyalty because it's a more emotionally charged word.. i think we can all agree there is much more to loyalty than obedience and the producers are confusing the issue (as they seem to be confused in general).. i agree the challenge is more about obedience and that andrew will take best in show.. (2nd best will be galaxy, then leroy, then presley)..

Re:Week 9 LOYALITY

agiletrainer — GMT

LOL, love the comment about the producers being confused! Yeah, they seem to use these words on each show with challenges that don't really relate very well to them at all. Of course, I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that loyalty as well is a breed trait! Herding and sporting breeds for instance are generally very "loyal" whereas dogs like terriers and hounds are typically a bit more independent. Their jobs don't really require the same amount of attention to their handler so they just tend to more often go their own way. You can certainly find dogs of all breeds anywhere along the curve but as a general rule, some breeds are simply bred to be highly attentive and responsive to their owners, and others aren't, but it doesn't mean those breeds aren't also "great" as well! It's all those different personalities that are part of what makes them so fascinating.

Week 9 LOYALITY

lily_lou — GMT

good points but again i still feel loyalty is too subjective to be judged.. i don't necessarily agree that one breed is more prone to loyalty than another, i think how they express their loyalty differs.. some are more doting, others are more dedicated to the tasks they've been given, in their own ways they're each expressing loyalty.. but i agree that the diversity is fascinating..

Week 9 LOYALITY

d32300 — GMT

lily_lou wrote: good points but again i still feel loyalty is too subjective to be judged.. i don't necessarily agree that one breed is more prone to loyalty than another, i think how they express their loyalty differs.. some are more doting, others are more dedicated to the tasks they've been given, in their own ways they're each expressing loyalty.. but i agree that the diversity is fascinating..

I really think this loyalty will come down to obedience, from the previews they were tempting to the dogs. If these others owners have made friends with theses dogs in the last few days, Naturally they will think mom/dad is away, I should play with my friend... (it is all subjective but I think it is more proper obedience)I have 3 poodles who will sit and stay for hours and want go to anyone except for the one that feeds them. They were food motivated when they were trained with the circus. (there retired now) But their obedience is still there!

Week 9 LOYALITY

agiletrainer — GMT

lily_lou wrote: i don't necessarily agree that one breed is more prone to loyalty than another, i think how they express their loyalty differs

That's a good way to put it, or more, people's definition of loyalty may vary according to the type of dog they prefer as well. Some people would define it as the dog's unending love for their owner, others as devotion only to them ("one-person" type of dog), others as attentiveness and obedience without question. I think that's one reason it's pretty difficult to "test" for since there's so many different ways to define it in "doggie" terms.

Week 9 LOYALITY

lily_lou — GMT

that's true agile, i think loyalty can be defined by any and all of the above.. but in whatever way it is defined or expressed, most dogs sure do have an abundance of it, that's one of the things i love about them..

Re:Week 9 LOYALITY

presleyseyes — GMT

Sorry, I am a new poster here, and unless we've strayed off topic, here are my guesses: Travis and Presley will make it.... I have a feeling that once Travis discovers what the challenge will be, he'll work extra hard with Presley, and judging from past events, the hard work may pay off. Teresa and Leroy will maybe fail, basically becuase Leroy's a talker, and with distrations he'll do worse cuading Teresa to freak out and ruin her chance. JD and Galaxy will make it becuase look at Galaxy! Seriously, she'll listen to what ever JD tells her to do! There's prrof in every episode! Laurie and Andrew will most likely do it becuase Andrew remains loyal to Laurie, but in my eyes is very observent (I noticed this is episode and may realize whats going on behind Laurie I think Leroy's gonna go

Re:Week 9 LOYALITY

lily_lou — GMT

this line of thought, the many ways dogs have of showing loyalty, has made me stop and think about the dogs i know and love and how their expressions of loyalty compare and differ.. in my apartment i can't have my own dog so i don't have the experience of a dog who deifies me as the hand that feeds him, and yet i still find loyalty in my k9 pals in the sense that once i've gained a positive rapport with them they will forever after recognize and acknowledge our friendship.. unconditional acceptance is part of it.. no matter what kind of day i'm having, whether i'm dressed up or have my hair stuffed in a hat, none of that superficial stuff matters to them, they go straight to the heart of a friendship and never alter in their devotion..and yet they do express it in such entirely different ways.. my jack russel pal goes bolistic and tries to dig her way out through the car window the moment she sees me and then has to be in constant physical contact.. her owner says this enthusiasm begins the moment she says my name and the dog knows they're coming to see me.. yet i know her level of loyalty is strong for her owner, until she got to know me better she would cry if her owner was out of her sight, but once we developed a friendship she can seperate without anxiety, so it's a lesser level of dependency but she is definitely a loyal friend.. her owner appologizes for the hyperness but i tell her are you kidding me? nobody else in my life is ever this excited to see me, i love it!my lab friend who has outgrown the puppy stage approaches me and sits and looks at me awaiting my command, like a dignified butler asking how can i help you? i'm here to serve! even though my commands are playful such as fetch the ball, he takes it all so seriously, it's so important to him to do a good job even at playtime.. that dedication to work ethic is his way of displaying loyalty.. he turns his back and ignores anyone he has not befriended which is why i think it does indicate his loyalty to those he has chosen to be of assistance to.. to him everything is a "job" and yet he joys in it too.. he approaches everything with a strong drive as if his life depends on it, but only to those he has chosen to be loyal to, to anyone else he just looks at with disdain like who are you to ask me to do anything? fetch it yourself! lol his son who is half lab half elk hound is very eager to please, he shows his loyalty by bounding over to greet me, to offer his undivided attention (and to expect mine in return lol).. like his dad he is selective and doesn't approach just anyone, but once you're in he gives 100%.. i've taught him to contain his excitement enough that he doesn't jump up on me and knock me down (anymore) and he has now reduced it to a full-body tail wag he also shows an eagerness to help.. when he sees me preparing for a run on the beach he takes it upon himself to herd the others.. he's learning not to grab them by the neck and now grabs their leash.. since it's an improvement and since herding is in his blood (thru the elk hound) i just tease him that it's obvious which end of the leash he wants to be on but he does seem to think he is "helping" and shares his daddy's work ethic.. and no matter how many people are on the beach he will periodically run over to me to smother me with kisses and let me know that he knows who he is there with, as if to let me know that even though he's loving the socialization among the crowd he wants to single me out and let me know i am still his best friend in the moment.. i would define that as loyalty as well..missy my dobey friend goes into a pathetic act when she sees me, whining and falling over and trying to make me feel as if "i've missed you so much, i've been pining away without you!" (which i know upon good authority that she hasn't been, lol) this is her way of showing loyalty, of trying to appease my need to be needed and to let me know i am yours to be babied for the day, aren't you lucky that i chose you for the honors? and yes, i do feel lucky, because she has trust issues from past abuse so to have won her trust and loyalty warms my heart to no end!but then, make it a choice between me and these dogs owners and i am quickly reduced to playing second fiddle! so there are different levels of loyalty and their deepest dedication is reserved for that one special partner, but even their loyalty towards their casual friendships seems to flow from an endless well and i feel so blessed to be on the receiving end wow, i didn't mean to write so much, but it is so true that it is difficult if not impossible to describe or judge loyalty briefly, it interweaves throughout the entire relationship and all interactions.. so it is pretty silly that this show thinks they can gauge it through one challenge! but i suppose i give them kudos for at least trying to include it because it definitely is one of any dog's best qualities!

Week 9 LOYALITY

imbicile — GMT

lily - That was a lovely narrative. How blessed your life is. Thanks for sharing.

Week 9 LOYALITY

lily_lou — GMT

aw thanx imbicile i was embarrassed to have gotten so longwinded and hijacking the thread as if it were my personal blog, lol, so i'm glad you enjoyed it and yes i am very fortunate my life would be missing something vital without my doggy friends (and the human ones too)

Re:Week 9 LOYALITY

tink517 — GMT

Lily, may others follow your example and emulate your pace you've set for yourself. You're out in front of the pack of those racing through life. Lily, will you adopt me into your pack?

Week 9 LOYALITY

lily_lou — GMT

aw, tink, i wouldn't call myself the leader of the pack, but thanx for that! and consider yourself adopted! i love your new avatar, what a beautiful fur baby! is that the same sweetie who had been snuggled in your pj pocket as an infant? (merry?)

Re:Week 9 LOYALITY

sherlock_234 — GMT

loy·al·ty –noun, plural -ties.1. the state or quality of being loyal; faithfulness to commitments or obligations.2. faithful adherence to a sovereign, government, leader, cause, etc.3. an example or instance of faithfulness, adherence, or the like: a man with fierce loyalties. My dog is my service dog. I trust her with my life (literally). She is a fairly exuberant golden retriever who believes life should be dealt in extremes. When she is working, she looks ahead, focuses on me and the tasks at hand, is calm, collected and ignores everyone and every thing with her life. When someone goes to pet her she pulls her head away with a sly look to the side awaiting my praise. They ask me if she is scared or shy. "No...she is trained". And any dog person would be able to see her behavioral cues from a mile away and agree with me. Don't let looks deceive, she LOVES her job and she will do it 100% perfect because that is what she does."Off duty" my dog is a maniac bouncing off the walls. She believes people are her own personal PLAY TOYS. She believes she should be loved, petted, played with... She greets every single person who enters my house by showing them her lovely bone. She is very much a social butterfly, a people magnet. Sometimes I get jealous.But she will stop that the second there is work. If the microwave oven goes off in the middle of a play session (or when she is dead asleep) she will come and alert me. If I go to leave the house without her notice she will freeze dead in her tracks and stare at me (she has no signs of separation anxiety and can be left at home fine--its just HER JOB). And if I grab her vest mid-greeting of my friend, she drops the bone and walks to the door and stands as cool and collected as possible to walk out that door.Ultimately my dog was trained on the foundation of obedience and repetition and rewards and consequences. She has been proofed to no end. But in service dog work, at some point there becomes a time when the dog no longer does it because there is a reward or consequence but because that is what they are. When I collapse on the ground I need her to press that big red button to call emergency not because I am commanding her to (I'm no threat), not because she is going to get a treat (she could just raid the fridge) but because she is loyal.-------As for this next show and these dogs, there are a few different reasons why some dogs will appear more 'loyal' than others. One is training. I do think training, proofing and teamwork go hand in hand with bonding and reliance on each other. The challenge did look like one of the biggest in the obedience clubs. Honestly, I think my dog would have stuck it with the elephant last week...grinning the whole time because that's a new thing for the game! But she has also learned that dogs that stay still seem to have less things fall on them, chase after them, and run into them.Another is temperament. Different breeds are very different. If you look at loyalty as to how much attention one gives to others versus their owner, some breeds are going to look pretty bad. A boxer isn't the most people discriminatory of dogs in the world. A small Maltese would be. If we had a German Shepard in the mix, GSDs are bred to be aloof. Aloof doesn't mean aggressive, it means indifferent to anyone but their own partner/family.Then you get into relationship, which would actually be where we start identifying the loyalty aspect. Like others said, I am not so sure any challenge will be able to show that. Not that I think this show can at all determine in any way the qualities of the Greatest American Dog.------Sorry, I write a lot. It took me forever to actually get logged on here.

Week 9 LOYALITY

lily_lou — GMT

sherlock what a beautiful story! thanx for taking the time to log on and share it! hats off to service dogs and to those who train them! your goldie gets my vote!

Re:Week 9 LOYALITY

tink517 — GMT

Lily, Thank you for the compliment on my new avatar picture of my little Tiffany and my "adoption". The baby in the previous picture was one of three that were born on Christmas Day that we named Merry. She now belongs to one of my sets of "adopted" parents and they kept the name and she keeps them laughing all day long and sometimes into the night. Depending what she gets into in the middle of the night. She is also the one that looks just like her doggy momma.

Re:Week 9 LOYALITY

alanstigg — GMT

Lily and Sherlock, thank you so much for sharing Tink - love your new avatar, what a doll!!I think all the dogs should do well this week. In Presley's case I think after the correction Travis got last week on his weak sit/stay command I think he was probably working on it before they even knew what the command was. Presley is defnitely hyper and still a pup but Travis has done a really good job of getting him to focus, and with some practice (which I'm hoping they all got) I think he probably did just fine.Personally I'd hate to have to compete in this challenge, I'd feel awful getting someone's dog to break command and ultimately go home. Guess I just don't have that competitive nature.

Re:Week 9 LOYALITY

agiletrainer — GMT

It's been interesting to read all the comments and stories in this thread and the different ways we can look at doggie loyalty. Some really nice thoughts in there. Although I did have to wonder at whoever it is that is throwing 1-star ratings on every single one of my comments...does someone *really* think that testing obedience to a sit-stay is a test of loyalty? Or that we shouldn't try to quantity "loyalty"? Or that different breeds show it in different ways?? Makes me wonder what they are objecting to so much. Maybe they just have a personal vendetta against me. AlansTigg - I thought the same thing, about having to try and send someone else home. I'm hoping that clip was from the dog bone challenge, and not the best in show elimination challenge, because I agree, that is putting the competitors in kind of an unpleasant spot otherwise. Tink - the new avatar is just *precious*!

Week 9 LOYALITY

lily_lou — GMT

you're welcome tink, she's adorable! alans and agile i hadn't thought of that but now that you mention it, omg yes i would feel so guilty if my distraction efforts were the one to get someone sent home! i have somewhat of a competetive drive to the point of always wanting to better my best, but have never had the heart of wanting to win at someone else's expense.. that would be a hollow victory..i wasn't sure from the preview if what they showed was the dog bone challenge or the elimination challenge.. i think i could compete for the dogbone with less guilt than when eviction is at stake!

Re:Week 9 LOYALITY

tink517 — GMT

Thank you all for the compliments on my little sweetheart. This is my mother's favorite picture and shehas it hung on the inside of the front door so that when you go to open it, Tiffany's is the last face you see as you go out.

Re:Week 9 LOYALITY

tillman522 — GMT

tink517 wrote: Lily, may others follow your example and emulate your pace you've set for yourself. You're out in front of the pack of those racing through life. Lily, will you adopt me into your pack?

Me too?

Week 9 LOYALITY

lily_lou — GMT

lol tilman, you're in too but i think i'm going to need a bigger kennel

Week 9 LOYALITY

elelki — GMT

lily_lou wrote: i guess it would seem the only way to test loyalty might be that when the dog is "off duty" and nothing is being requested/required of him, then who does he go to when he's just looking for his best friend to spend time with..

Right on target, Lily. In a household with more than one person and more than one dog, this is how I decide who REALLY belongs to whom, no matter what the humans or the paperwork say. And with a "good family dog" you really have to pay close attention... same with the friendly dogs.And yep, Agiletrainer is so right about Andrew's chances and why. I think this is why Andrew was so steady with the elephant, by the way. If Laurie's been creative with distractions, and I bet she has, Andrew looked at that elephant and said: "GOOD try mom! Think you can make me move, can't you? Well I'm staying right here and you are gonna owe me LOTS of treats and pettin's!"Predictions, I gave mine in another thread, but in short I think Andrew will definitely make it, Leroy and Galaxy almost certainly, Presley almost certainly not. But we can hope!

Re:Week 9 LOYALITY

lily_lou — GMT

that's true eleiki.. we had a chinese chow-chow when i was a kid and during the busy hours of the day she and i had a good rapport, but come bedtime nothing i could do could bribe her out of my sister's bed and into mine.. we both treated her the same but for whatever reason she just made up her mind that she was my sister's dog and she was unwavering about it.. i take it back that we treated her the same, now that i think about it i used to put clothing on her which she tolerated but seemed very insulted by! my sister always "rescued" her and took the clothes back off.. so i guess she did have good reason to choose loyalty to my sister, lol not that i'm against doggy clothing but it depends on the dog, that one did not appreciate it if we'd had a breed with a lesser need for dignity, it would've been "my" dog i'm torn in my predictions about presley.. he did so amazing with the elephant so i want to hope he'll do as well again, but that was a totally new situation so he had good reason to keep his eye on his trusted travis and watch him for cues.. he is comfortable with the other housemates so their distractions may feel safer than the elephant and he'll have less of a life-or-death need to pay attention.. so i'm bracing myself for the possibility that we might be saying bye bye to the lovable boxer..

Week 9 LOYALITY

agiletrainer — GMT

elelki wrote: If Laurie's been creative with distractions, and I bet she has, Andrew looked at that elephant and said: "GOOD try mom! Think you can make me move, can't you? Well I'm staying right here and you are gonna owe me LOTS of treats and pettin's!"

LOL, yup, that's what you get when you've done proper distraction training, they know the game and you can see the determination in them to win and get the prize, they definitely get a "you can't fool me" attitude! It does remind me of a time I was at a herding facility with my sheltie and left him on a sit-stay while I was using the porta-potty. We were far away from the enclosures where the sheep were working so it didn't occur to me to worry about him. But while I was in there I heard a "baaa" that was *awfully* close, so rushed to get out and see what happened. Turned out, they had just moved the entire flock of sheep to another enclosure and they'd gone right behind him! He had this look on his face like, okay mom, did you have to use *sheep*?! I'm sure he thought I planned the whole thing!

Re:Week 9 LOYALITY

agiletrainer — GMT

i guess it would seem the only way to test loyalty might be that when the dog is "off duty" and nothing is being requested/required of him, then who does he go to when he's just looking for his best friend to spend time with..

I had a cute story for this one as well....for some reason, whenever I stay with my parents, my dog would always prefer to lie next to my Dad. And why is that funny? Because he's the one that's allergic to dogs! I always thought only cats did that...

Week 9 LOYALITY

lily_lou — GMT

lol agile, i'm sure he was expecting an enormous atta-boy for that sit/stay! of course you just pulled that flock of sheep out of your pocket, nice try! lol and yes, my sister used to try to shove our chow out of her bed, when i'd get jealous she'd say take her, she's crowding me anyway, i don't want her in here, but that dog would not budge, her rightful place was with my sis, she had made up her mind of that and a herd of wild horses (or a flock of sheep?) could not get her to disprove her loyalty even when my sister herself would try to reject her, she too must've assumed my sister was trying to test her and she was determined not to fall for it hmmnnnn..... it dawns on me that "loyal" is a close cousin to "stubborn"

Re:Week 9 LOYALITY

agiletrainer — GMT

Yeah, he definitely got some nice treats for that! But the expression on his face was so priceless, he really looked quite annoyed that I had tried to get him to move with *sheep*. It just wasn't fair! That's funny about your chow - they definitely have a good streak of stubborn in them! I've seen dogs get attached to someone other than their owner sometimes, and it's not always obvious why. It's funny how dogs can get so set in their ways when it comes time to go to bed. My first sheltie I just could not convince to sleep on the bed with me. He really did not like being on furniture next to people either, or getting hugged or cuddled with. He just preferred to lay on the floor. He was always right next to me, and followed me around...he just preferred the floor. I felt bad as he got older, because I just could not convince him to sleep on even a doggie bed, he'd go lie on the cold hard bathroom floor a lot of times.

Week 9 LOYALITY

lily_lou — GMT

yeah it's interesting how individual pets have preferences.. i would recommend finding out what they prefer before investing in an expensive bed! i spent way too much for a basket/bed for my cat and he ignored it, so i decided to get my money's worth out of it and use it as an end table, but no sooner did i remove the pillows and throw remote controls etc in there, there was my cat curling up ontop of the clutter and reclaiming the bed he previously wanted nothing to do with he prefers a bean bag chair i got for two bucks at a garage sale, i could've saved myself fifty bucks, live and learn! but i've known pets like yours too who seemed to prefer hard surfaces.. i know what you mean how we cringe at the thought of their aging bones on the chilly floor, but i guess he truly did prefer that because you did a good job of letting him know he had choices and encouraging him to sleep on a bed.. they sure do have a mind of their own don't they?

Week 9 LOYALITY

agiletrainer — GMT

They sure do! My last sheltie was the total opposite, the older he got, the more he loved comfortable things to lie on...he would sprawl out on the pillows on my bed at night, when for years he'd slept at the foot of the bed. I spoiled him, I'll admit - I put an old feather bed under my desk where he lay most of the day and he would just throw himself down on it and groan with pleasure at the feel of it, scrunching and rolling around to get all pushed down into it. I always love dogs for how much pleasure they get from such simple things.

Week 9 LOYALITY

lily_lou — GMT

yes that is one of my favorite things about them too, they really do know how to enjoy the moment and appreciate simple pleasures

Week 9 LOYALITY

agiletrainer — GMT

And it's such a gift for us too. I wish it was that easy to give such happiness and joy to everyone else in my life as well!

Week 9 LOYALITY

lily_lou — GMT

yes! if only our people pals were that easy to please!

Re:Week 9 LOYALITY

tink517 — GMT

Some of you will be jealous, I just got home from the Jimmy Buffet concernt at Nissan Pavilion.What a way to "end" the summer. Talk about loyalty, some of those parrot heads have beenfollowing him for 40 years. I'm a relative newcomer, but my husband gave me parrot head tags foron my car because he knew him about 25-30 years ago when he lived in the Keys.

Re:Week 9 LOYALITY

genevafromva — GMT

LOL....LOL....LOLI just wanted to know who all you thought would win this week's challenge, with a brief description of why. But LOL....LOL....LOL you guys have taken this thread far and beyond...very interesting...Great thoughts though. I just find it funny of what I was expecting from this thread to what it became.

Week 9 LOYALITY

lily_lou — GMT

oops....duplicate

Re:Week 9 LOYALITY

lily_lou — GMT

lol geneva, i was thinking the same thing, you requested "brief" responses and i felt a bit guilty for being far from brief myself so thanx for being such a good sport about the direction this chat has taken i've found it very interesting and enjoyable

Re:Week 9 LOYALITY

myboyjackson — GMT

I love all these stories. Thanks for sharing. I have to agree with presleyseyes. I agree what is said about the remaining dogs. I also think that if Bill & Star were still there, they'd do well in this. I do believe it will be Teresa and Leroy that go this week. I know Travis and Presley can do it!!!!

Re:Week 9 LOYALITY

stuckeja — GMT

agiletrainer wrote: That's funny about your chow - they definitely have a good streak of stubborn in them! I've seen dogs get attached to someone other than their owner sometimes, and it's not always obvious why.

It's even better when your dog decides they love one of the ring stewards in an obedience trial. Every time I let her off leash she ran over to see her new best friend. And he didn't look like anyone she knew! Oh well, you have to go with the flow with these terriers. She's got one leg to her CD, but liked to pick one exercise each trial to not perform. We have taken a break and focused on the agility, but now that she is 7 I am looking to get back in the obedience ring.

Week 9 LOYALITY

lily_lou — GMT

lol my friend with the terrier says she's afraid to leave her alone with me for too long because the dog loves me so much she's gonna decide to adopt me as her new owner but i told her i do love the bond we share but don't worry, she knows who her mommy is until she got to know me she would cry for her owner.. it's really cool when a dog can reach out and include another close bond and widen their circle of loyalty.. (though not always convenient as in an obedience trial, lol).. but i think at the end of the day they would still prefer their true owners.. others may for whatever reason steal a dog's heart, but we can only borrow their loyalty, but they have plenty of loyalty to spare so i don't feel short-changed to know that no matter how much a dog seems to prefer my company in the moment, i know where i stand overall, second place to the owner (though i confess my ego has no complaints when it ends up being a "close" second, lol)

Re:Week 9 LOYALITY

alanstigg — GMT

that's so true Lily, Bruce has his favorites among the people in his world....he adores one girl at my work, above all the others, but will pout and pace if I leave him with her to run out...but if I'm around he's sitting on her lap. He has his favorite and loves them dearly but he's a Daddy/Momma's boy for sure.oh and in case I've never told you I love your avatar, looks like a very sweet girl~Tigg~

Week 9 LOYALITY

lily_lou — GMT

bruce sounds like a very well balanced dog alans (he's a cutie too!) and thanx, the avatar is missy my dobey friend (wrapped in my beach blanket after wading in the ocean)