boo2221 wrote: Oooooo.......... By the way, while you all are typing on this post can you come over to mine and say how much we need to see Kyle and Horatio agian. I am so tortured right now. I just want another story with them.....and another....okay, and another.What can I say, I 'm needy

h-cool wrote: Great analyzing and thought, cle0919. We don't really know Julia's full background. H told Frank Tripp in "Raising Caine" #6.13 that Julia was a nurse in a military hospital in Pensacola when he met her while working undercover. So, I don't get a feeling that she was a criminal when they first met.To me... I do get a feeling that she is scared of Ron Saris, she wants to protect H and Kyle, and that Ron was probably her embezzling and long-time partner in crime even before she married and became Mrs. Winston.H-COOL

boo2221 wrote: This is very much how I have presented many times before how Julia's character can be plausibly redeemed by the writers.The trust issue-interesting touch. I feel that Julia completely trusts Horatio with Kyle and will protect him. Because of their unresolved issues and her deep feelings for him, she may not only know if she can trust him where she is concern, but also can she trust herself around him. She always seemed to try to be cool and restrained around him in past episodes.

kylesangel wrote: I got a question, why would she not trust herself around Kyle? Do you think that she might feel like she will fail him or something? I think when it comes to Kyle, Julia might be trying to compensate for the time she spent apart from him? The car, the money, everything... Maybe she feels she has to go material because Horatio beats her in the emotional/ physical aspect of the parenthood? Also H-cool, I have noticed that Horatio refers to Kyle as "My son," never "Our son." I always wonderd about that

kylesangel wrote: I got a question, why would she not trust herself around Kyle? Do you think that she might feel like she will fail him or something? I think when it comes to Kyle, Julia might be trying to compensate for the time she spent apart from him? The car, the money, everything... Maybe she feels she has to go material because Horatio beats her in the emotional/ physical aspect of the parenthood? Also H-cool, I have noticed that Horatio refers to Kyle as "My son," never "Our son." I always wondered about that

kylesangel wrote: Oh okay, but I think even before we found out she had the disorder she needed to give Kyle all these things. Like we knew Kyle did not know his father did all those things for him, but when Julia said she had the car for him, we knew who he was going for. Though Kyle said that he had always wanted to find his mother, I am a young person and if someone had a car waiting for me, I would take it too. It was clear that Horatio wanted Kyle to choose him, I just think that Julia needs to prove her worth to Kyle.

BethHK wrote: I would just like to point out something that seems to have either been forgotten or ignored. And that is, that redemption is different than innocence . For someone to redeem themselves it requires that they were guilty. It requires them to admit they were guilty, apologize and make things right (or kill themselves in the attempt), accept their punishment (their jail sentence), turn from it (whatever they were guilty of), and never do it again. Based on some of the posts I've read it seems to me that many think Julia may be innocent, or at the very most a victimized pawn. This is different than redeeming her. A completely guilty and charged criminal can redeem themselves, but that doesn't make them innocent. Our entire criminal justice system here in the U.S. is based on the assumption that the evil doers can and will redeem themselves, get out of prison, and lead normal healthy lives. Otherwise why would we ever release them back into society. This is why I say that the idea of a Julia Redemption implies that Julia is guilty. Now whether she will be redeemed is yet to be determined.

boo2221 wrote: People,People!!I need to clarify quicky my statement before someone else responds to it:I was referring to the fact that she may not trust herself aound HORATIO not Kyle. She is very comfortable with her son. I was referring to that she was cool and restrained around HORATIO not Kyle. She is relaxed with her son.Redemption can also be in refences to a person's moral actions. Plausible explaination for way she left Horatio and Kyle.

csimasala5 wrote: en - inti,H was in the military when he met Julia 17 years ago in Pensacola he was under cover and went by the name of John. he was under a different name. Although there has only been short episodes now about Julia and Kyle a lot was said about them. [b]

csimasala5 wrote: Yelena did look into Kyle and Julia back ground which she did find out that kyle was place in foster care after either Julia mother could not take care of him or she may have died.That is not clear yet. Julia told H. she meant to go back to get Kyle from her mother but never said why. I think it is safe to say that she was not keeping up on the where a bout's of Kyle for several years. It does not even seem that she had talk to her mother in several years. Kyle had one phone number for her in Pensacola which Horatio recognized the number when Kyle tried to call her from jail. I don't doubt it was either his grandmother's phone number or the last place she stayed in Pensacola. [b]

csimasala5 wrote: Yelena also found out about the crime's she and Ron committed but where never found guilty on any of the charges.Some of it was passing bad checks also. A lot of it had to do with her using alias and They were crimes of fraud and embezzling. [b]

csimasala5 wrote: Yes it is true that H. did not know where Julia or what she was doing those years but it does not take a rocket science to know that she was not living right. [b]

csimasala5 wrote: I think I might have heard H. say to her he wants your money that you have acquired over the years how ever you acquired it Ron wanted kill her and Kyle and take her money she accumulated over the years. [b]

csimasala5 wrote: Julia married Mr.Winston only to do the same thing to him she did to all the others. [b]

csimasala5 wrote: The reason this is true is because Julia admitted that she found out about them when she saw them on the desk. When she went into his office for something. [b]

csimasala5 wrote: The lawyer took them claiming he was protecting Mr.Winston. Calleigh asked him for the papers and he told her he would hand them over after she got a Subpeona. There was a scene where Julia was talking to the individual who killed Mr. Winston and even though Horatio could never prove her involvement in the actual murder. like all the rest he warned Horatio about her manipulative ways. [b]

csimasala5 wrote: It's all in the details and dialogue sometimes you can miss a lot if you are not paying attention. [b]

csimasala5 wrote: The only reason people use alias is to commit fraud or run from someone or for undercover work. [b]

csimasala5 wrote: When H. asked when was the last time she spoke to Ron she said 5 years and H. said 6 years So in the six years she was dealing with Ron you do the math what were they doing considering Ron was pure evil. [b]

csimasala5 wrote: The illness is a big part of Julia behavior like I said individual with bi-polar disorder are unpredictable in their behavior. The illness allows them to have hallucination and paranoia and schizoid episodes. No matter what if the person is off the medications they don't trust anyone. This makes them disappear for long periods of time.When Julia was having an episode in the living room when H. was talking to her she told him that they all lie, including him mentioning his undercover name 17 years ago. She she was not really with it at that time. H. did explain to her why he went by the name of John when he met her. But Bi-polar disorder will have the them regress to a negative and distrust. not matter what the truth is. [b]

csimasala5 wrote: So she does not trust him only when she is in that state of mind, Even when Kyle was fighting with the neighbor and she was having hallucination she was in what we call a state of auditory hallucination. It's when the people around her seems as if they are attacking you. [b]

csimasala5 wrote: When Julia walked into he room with Horatio and her asst. and Frank, Horatio back was to her When I think either Frank or Horatio asked where Mrs. Winston . Julia walked in and said, Her I am John, but that is not your name now it's Horatio Caine I like it it suites you. So she did know who he was and that he was a cop. [b]

csimasala5 wrote: I guess we all have different in-sights to this story, and that makes all the more interesting so let's wait and see how all of this will play out. [b]

kylesangel wrote: Enhinti,I just wanted to say that when Frank asked Horatio who she was when he was signing the papers, Horatio told him through a flashback, then Frank said custody is as a big step, and Horatio goes I know.

kylesangel wrote: I think everything about her is speculation, until the writers finally clear the air about her.

csimasala5 wrote: - ehinti,As funny as that was don't sell Ray Jr. to short now! I mean the boy has gone through hell and back also. If anything Kyle would have to put him in check. Kyle is a real laid back person, I don't think other then all the crap his gone through He is the type now to get in any trouble unless it 's to help his mother out. Horatio has Kyle on a short lease, He is still on probation and can't afford to get in any trouble. [b]

boo2221 wrote: This is such stimulating discussion going on here. As I have stated many many times before that writers can redeem this character with plausable answers.I must say I am bemused. Many of the ideas of redemption and explanations for actions I talked about after the episode "All In" and commented on through out the summer at different times. If the writers took our different ideas and put them together they would have a solid story for Julia that everyone would support. Maybe that is what the writers are looking for-a solid story everyone could get behind about Julia. I find it interesting that of all the posts they chose this one as one of their Hot Topic and I find their discription for it interesting. They are pushing for us to talk about it after "Bombshell". I think they want to hear from us some solid ideas from us that would have us understand the character of Julia more and be able to view her with shades of gray instead of black and white.Having grown up watching soaps my favorite characters were the ones with shades of gray on the shows. As a matter of fact I remember that in the 80's the anti-hero & herorine was quite popular. Sorry I am dating myself, but this concept did have an affect on other shows both daytime and nightime.If they listen to what we are saying about the redemption or explanation or whatever you want to call it, they can give us a character that we can understand better and get behind.Now I am about to have people spit at me through my email, but if the writers give us the situations that we are talking about for Julia, I feel he has finally met his match. They would prove her to be the developed and multifaceted female character needed to interact with Horatio. And let's face it, caruso has shown that Horatio has many sides and does a good job at going from either ends of the gray spectrum.I liked Yelina and Marisol just fine, but their characters did not have the complexity and strength that is needed to play opposite Horatio's character. Think about it, there is a reason why many felt that Horatio and Calleigh click. The character of Calleigh has the complexity and strength. We know Julia's character has the complexity, but yes, the character also has the stregth. Go back and watch the episodes with Berkley. She has been given the opportunity to show the steel in her character and the vulnerability in the character due to the bi-polar condition.I want the writers to bring it on and how me with what they will due with this graet family dynamics of Horatio/Kyle/Julia. The possibilities are amazing.I realize that due to my email I am about to get some verbal email lashings.

h-cool wrote: Ok... time for me to weigh back in on this "board tweak". Let's see... Megan Donner said, "The problem with the obvious is it makes you overlook the evidence."But... Since I'm an "H wannabe", I'll go with my instincts on this one... "Julia is not to be trusted!" I can't stand soaps or soap operas. They are just total "mush" and "woosh". :-]> Yuk!And, Heavens... please TPTB don't turn CSI:Miami, my favorite CSI, Cop and Action show into one!H-COOL

I agree, Julia has a very dark side(female Darth Vader). Not to be trusted at all

csimasala5 wrote: - I agree with you all about Julia, I mean she is no doubt the queen of distrust, and two faced. I love Horatio, but his insight to seeing the good in people at specially matters of his heart is that he allows them to get inside his head.Julia dark side, stems from a lot of baggage she has occurred over the years. Mostly likely dealing with men such as the likes of Ron. Every time Horatio arrested someone connected to Julia they always warn him about her. They tell him "She will bring you down to Lt. Don't trust her." No so far she has done that with two men the man who she manipulated into killing Mr. Winston, and The Financial Manager. Now I do believe they both warned Horatio about her. Now Julia has been accused of writing bad checks. Evidently this would not be the first time since we found out early on that she does this. and uses alias. I know he is properly thinking along the lines of her being Kyle mother, and this helpless now sick individual but Horatio baby don't be fooled. She is pure evil.It should be interesting to see how she over comes her financial situation and moving out of that high scale neighborhood. I got a feeling Julia is going to get involve with some other tycoon type rich man who murder is also going to an an issue for Horatio. Putting him right back in the story line of Mr. Winston story line. It's the quit before the storm and I don't doubt before they write her off the show for good. Horatio is going to go through a tale wind of chaos and speculation and family issues with her and Kyle. Horatio cannot give Julia what she is use to, He is to laid back and to calm for her. Then we never know when Ron is going to pop up again, He is properly plotting and planning now the Ultimate revenge on them both. I don't doubt kidnapping Kyle would be a possibility for getting Horatio somewhere and trying to kill him. Well this is a discussion that will keep us guessing for months. [b]

boo2221 wrote: The writers did a great job creating a character we weren't expecting to see as Horatio's one true love and the mother of Kyle. The strike gave the audience 4 months to hate this woman. We saw only one side to her. When the strike was over and they continue to develop the character, many were still frozen on their first image of the character.

boo2221 wrote: Oh please!...Kyle can be continually kidnapped or placed in peril. We love seeing Horatio save his son. It is one of the things that make him such a sexy dad. Besides, Kyle is at the perfect age to have mayhem happen to him. Being Horatio's son I can see him naturally following his dad's lead and looking for the truth, protecting and defending the helpless. But, because of his age he still needs someone keeping aneye on him. He still doesn't quite have all the skill of looking for the truth and being able to keep himself safe in the process. Hence, we need dad there to help and protect him.

csimasala5 wrote: - Julia was really arrogant when Frank slap the cuffs on her in the parking lot and she look at Horatio and said you know you still love me. What did she think he was not going to do his job and let her go! Reality check The one thing I do know about Horatio whether he cares or not He will put your sorry A--in jail if you are wrong.She played a lot with his emotions because she knew he still cared for her no matter how small the emotion was. I know he properly was dealing with mix emotions his own self about and the criminals she has been running around with and her own criminal activities. It is clear that she was not the same woman he met all those years ago. So how do you stop being a nurse and become a full time criminal. How does that happen? she knows just where Horatio weakness is, the fact that he cares. Julia used that to her benefit. Everything she does is out of need for her self. She knew he had just found out about Kyle and he wanted to have Kyle in his life. I mean after all where was she the last 12 years of his life. She said she left Kyle with her mother, ok then why would it have taken 12 years almost for you to go back and find your son if you were so bent on getting him back. That was a lie for Horatio benefit so she would not look like a bad mom. Kyle may have been on her mind, but when she inherited her millions It would have not taken me long to go find my child no matter what kind of money I would have had to spent. Now she properly would say she did not want to expose him to her criminal boyfriends and life style if she did that it would be admitting to her guilt of committing crimes. So she could not very well do that. She could also blame her illness in which case is another excuse for her misguided reason for not going to get her son.When Horatio told her about Kyle being in jail what does she do to make it look like she is a wronged mother. She finds out about his court date and beat Horatio to the punch. She is so manipulative, she properly was betting on Kyle wanting to see her and know who his mother is so she uses that to make it look like she missed him and she never stop loving him and or looking for him. I mean if she knew that the state had taken Kyle then what does that say about her and her mother relationship. I mean was her mother ill and they took Kyle because she could not care for him anymore or did her mother die and Julia just left and never look back. I mean Gee you didn't even call to see if your own mother was living or dead and if you child was fine. Did she even write to them. send any kind of birthday cards or gifts. NO!!!!! Julia cares about Julia and now that Kyle is in her life and Horatio also she has no other choice but to try change at specially now she has lost her millions which brings me to another point about her and her life style. It want work with a manipulating and selfish personalty that she has right now. I mean years have passed since Pensacola the two people then are not the two people now and you can't go back to you where you left off no matter how much you want to.Horatio has gone through hell and back. Julia has gone through hell and still going through hell now we know she is bi-polar. Is Horatio life style and or position as a Lt. over a Crime lab going to be enough for Julia who has been living the life of luxury and spending money like water. Can she settle down live in modest home and drive a car that is not over 40,000.00. Can she be a Lt. wife and live above reproach and make a home for both kyle and Horatio is that possible for her or will she grow board of Horatio and being a mom. Will she stop flirting with danger. Julia her personalty, her out their character, Oh know she would properly run again.I don't think she is capable, Horatio would spend all his time trying to make her happy and she will bring him down emotionally and socially. I have seen Horatio just in one episode get so angry with her and then switch his emotion to concern it's going to be hard if the writers link that juggling act up He still have to also worry about Kyle also.I think Julia is going to run and break Horatio and Kyle heart. She properly would leave some long letter saying how she loved them both and it's better off if Kyle stays with his father and that she needs time to get her self together. [b]

h-cool wrote: "You know what they say... You lie down with the devil, you wake up in hell." ("Double Cap" #1.19) H-COOL [/color]

kylesangel wrote: One question for me remained, other than Horatio not saying anything when he saw Kyle with a gun:How did he know they were at that house? Because that was not there primary residence. I did not get that? Was that another one of Horatio's safe houses or something. Did he say plane to throw people off and he really sent them to a house? Because if you think about it, that was not their home.

enhinti wrote: Good question I don't think it would cause him to marry Julia (assuming she would marry him). It might cause him to sleep with her again, but it won't cause him to marry her, and he won't be blinded by anything. Remember in "Bombshell" H was concerned that Kyle was going to go back to prison. Not Julia. H believed Kyle, when Kyle said that he didn't kill the neighbor and hadn't driven the car that day. If H had put Julia in the car he would have told Frank to arrest her again, and this time murder would have stuck! I'm thinking of what H said to Suzy after he found out that Madison was Ray's daughter. She said that she would stay clean from drugs, and he said that she now had no choice. H gave Yelina space when he realized she was seeing Stetler. B then when he suspected Stetler of abusing Yelina, H step in and threatened, and then "punished" Stetler. When Ray Jr. called, H came immediately and gave Stetler a rough shoulder as he was walking out. "Keep walking!" H is going to be there for Julia, for Kyle's sake and because he's a protector, but he won't do anything stupid. Julia ultimately doesn't have a say in the matter, but if she was totally against it, she would have let Ron shoot H back in "Ambush." Side note here. H actually has a one up on Julia now. Julia's out burst and back check stuff coupled with her 12 year absence and her affiliation with Ron would make a good case in a custody suit. She was a mess then- she a mess now! I'm no lawyer but I'd think H could have Kyle taken away from Julia. If Julia wants to keep her son, she'll keep herself on track, at least for a while. It will be a tentative peace as the communication barriers will be worse, but peace is peace and Kyle needs it!

kylesangel wrote: Umm? I never thought about it that way, He could be tolerating the situation because it is what Kyle wants? In family law and in custody cases, it comes down to what the child wants (Most but not all cases). But I don't think he is waiting for something bad to happen to Julia so that he can get Kyle, because then if something happens to her, like say death, it would hurt Kyle more than anything else, so he would do something to save her for the sake if his son. Horatio has no reason to have guilt, he loved her, she left him and did not tell him about Kyle. If anything she should be the one that is sorry and guilty, not Horatio. She caused him to miss out on his own sons life.

h-cool wrote: Hey enhinti: In your non-CSI:MI Fan world are you sure your not a "defense lawyer"? 'Cause... Wow, you seem to really like this Julia.

h-cool wrote: Two men now have warned H that if he is not careful, Julia will be his downfall. Ron, would probably also agree.

h-cool wrote: Of course, our H-ero is too cleaver to be taken all the way down.

cle0919 wrote: Julia even said that he still loves her in season 6. When Kyle asked him if he loved her once, he never answered. I think Julia has a lot of explaining to do about why she disappeared a couple months after she and H were together. I think Julia needs to figure out her life path because it seems to coincide a lot with bad people. If she is serious about being with H, then she needs to rid herself of all the negative people in her life and come clean to H about everything she has ever been apart of or done. The road to salvation and love is long and winding, if she is willing to do that then H will be there by her side.

h-cool wrote: Hey enhinti: Your taking H-COOL to seriously. My fellow "board tweakers" will tell you that I can be a jokester and make posts that mean "read between the lines".

h-cool wrote: I think she is sly and conniving, and come-on...

h-cool wrote:

enh - nti wrote: Anyone who constantly shows her advisory her "hand" is either stupid or seriously inhibited.

Sounds "harsh", but I have to disagree.I think Julia is smart and manipulative.

cle0919 wrote: If she is serious about being with H, then she needs to rid herself of all the negative people in her life and come clean to H about everything she has ever been apart of or done.

HDC53 wrote: Kylesangel,I admire your desire to remain open minded and to give Julia a chance. It just bothers me so much that he has done all the giving (at least what we have seen on screen). I have not yet seen any evidence that she is giving anything back to him. One -way relationships are not healthy or do not serve as good role models.

kylesangel wrote: I understand, we as fans do not want to see him get hurt and a lot of his fans think that this will happen when he gets with Julia, bit what if it doesn't what if the opposite happens and Julia is the person that helps him from this dark place.

csimasala5 wrote: Julia and Horatio relationship it stems from a 17 year meeting.I don't know how long Horatio and Julia knew each other then,

csimasala5 wrote: [colo - =brown]Julia was preganant with Kyle when that took place I don't doubt because of the time line. [/color]

csimasala5 wrote: [colo - =brown]Did she leave Kyle with her mother yes. She told Horatio on the day he found out she was Mrs. Winston that she left Kyle with her mother and was planning to go back to get him.[/color]

csimasala5 wrote: [colo - =brown]I could see two years leaving your son, but 17 years and you still thought your son was with your mother. [/color]

csimasala5 wrote: As far as Julia now knowing she was pregnant wasn't she a nurse? [[b]

thenonna wrote: I'm glad H has a son - it puts him in the "human" realm.

thenonna wrote: I hope they don't think the Julia/Horatio opposite attraction is remotely like that of Lady Heather/Grissom -

kylesangel wrote: I mean everyone has reasons why they flee and sometimes those reasons need to be explained, in Julia's case they need to be explained

h-cool wrote: Julia's neckline went from low to really low.

enhinti wrote:

h-cool wrote: Julia's neckline went from low to really low.

Yeah I thought so too. Calleigh and Natalia wore really low neck lines in "Dangerous Son," and they often do in other episodes. Alex would especially wear an incredibly low neck line, and she always was bending over! What's worse, Alex always wore tight fitting pants which outlined her rear-end. My boy friend was totally appalled. What's up with that?

Yes, that subject has been brought up on our board several time with, actually, some of our male posters complaining about it too. One past suggestion was that they dress the female characters like that to keep the theme of Miami being "young and hip" or "hot and humid". Take your pick on the meaning of those last words. My thought... since sponsors are not just concerned about #'s of viewers but the market share of viewers that are 18-49 year olds and that market share is usually focused on the male population VS female population (Nielson Ratings)... you just get more views of the female anatomy. A producer/writer on DVD commentary mentioned this fact and stated that is why they threw in a little gem for us female viewers at the beginning of "Hard Time" #2.04. I suppose they had the same mindset in the recent episode with Eric in the towel. Since these actresses are in good shape, maybe they want to "accentuate the positive". Anyway, with Alexx, she seemed to always be wearing like a workout tank-top and not a sleekly, tight fitting dress. So, that does not appear "vamp" to me. More like... the M.E. was exercising before she got a call-out to the crime scene. Calleigh... probably is being influenced by CA VS. LA (or NC in real-life) in dress. But, Julia... still appears "vamp" to me!H-COOL

enhinti wrote:Nurse or not, a twenty one year old woman (and Julia could not have been older then that)

enhinti wrote: Kyle entered foster care at age 6 and was 16 in "Raising Caine." He clearly remembered his mother and knew her old phone number. To me he had to be at the youngest four when she left him if he was to retain that information. That means that she was gone for ten to twelve years.

BethHK wrote: As a side note: Kyle was born July 6, 1991 at 2:04 (it doesn't say AM or PM) And weighed in at 6lb 7oz.

boo2221 wrote: One question I want to throw out a moment and like you all to seriously think about: Why do we allow a dark and manipulate male character to be turn gray and embrace him, but we can't do the say for the female character? Ooooo.......Gender question for thought and controversy.

h-cool wrote: But, Julia... still appears "vamp" to me![/color]

h-cool wrote: And, sorry to be so frank... but it's the obvious boob exposure, the way she talks and her actions that sets her apart from the others and appears "vamp" to me. I see business casual daily, but it doesn't have the "exposure" that Julia's has.

rocllfan wrote: I just saw an epi where H told Tripp he had a relationship w/Julia 16yrs ago when he was undercover in Narcotics.

csimasala5 wrote: I think the only one who may have dressed conservative was Rebbecca the DA. that is properly because she was in court all the time. Even Marisol dressed vampish in style [/color]

csimasala5 wrote: It's almost as if a spell has been cast over his life that creates the darkness and the gray areas in his life. We know that he struggles with his mother's death and killing his father. That alone will cause a whole lot of darkness and gray areas in your life when you have not made peace with that kind of situation. [/color]

boo2221 wrote: I am now watching the beginning of Rampage on A&E. I never saw it before. I stand corrected about Horatio telling any woman he loves them. I just saw Horatio tell Marisol he loved her! I am stunned. I think there was even a kiss. I was still shocked when he told her he loved her. Oh, and she was cured of cancer suddenly in that episode!I am stunned. I need to think about this a moment.

kylesangel wrote: That is one scene to paint.

cle0919 wrote: Two, if Julia left Kyle with her mother, no mention of her father by the way, then why is there two guardians, the Armstrongs, listed on Kyle's birth cert?

cle0919 wrote: I believe Julia has two true sides to her, one that is pure, wants to change and is willing to love and trust again; and the other is deceitful, manipulative, and gets her way at any cost. Now whether she is aware of these two sides I am not sure. She does however has two strong dual personalities.

boo2221 wrote: Now, if you watch "Raising Caine" again you will notice that he was trying to put her in jail twice because of Kyle. Horatio was conflicted with emotion when he saw her. I felt that the prevailing emotion in the episode was anger because of what has happenned in Kyle's life and feelings he had about her leaving him when he loved her, so he didn't want her anywhere near him. He wanted Kyle all to himself because he felt that he could love and protect him better than she did. This why I think "enhinti" has made some good observations about how Julia has responded to Horatio. I can see how Julia would feel that Horatio was out to get her. These 2 people are running high on alot of emotion based on love, trust, hurt, and anger.

csimasala5 wrote: I think you have two great story started already for fan fic, at specially the one about Horatio and his parents and the abuse.

csimasala5 wrote: This was a great topic when I started it and I did not think it would run like this.

csimasala5 wrote: You know we can come up with all types of images for the story line the writers have build. I do know they are looking at this site also.

boo2221 wrote: Kyle saving Rebecca Niven. Now that would be poetic justice. I would love to see the look on her face if that happenned. She went after Kyle and showed no mercy.

ladyjr8 wrote: Well this got good-Horatio and Julia. I think that with both of them time as made the heart grow fonder over some memories and forgetful of the reality from so long ago. People tend to remember past loves with rose colored glasses when they never see the person again AND have a kid by them. I think Julia forgot Kyle cause she wanted to forget Horatio-she dumped the boy off and didn't worry about him again. She's had money for awhile why didn't she look for Horatio or Kyle? Yeah her illness or her selfishness would explain that away. As for a s/l possibility-I would think if Ron wanted to truly devastate BOTH H and Julia he'd "fake" Kyle's death-like have the boy's car blow up and everybody thinks the kid is inside. Maybe Ron would plant some of Kyle's hair or skin for DNA proof. And while H and Julia are freaking out-a sedated Kyle is found somewhere in a locked abandoned warehouse or something. I know kidnapping would be a repeat but Ron's MO is grabbing and taping someone up-maybe he'd do that to Kyle. Then H and Julia would either rip each other up with the blame game or they'd work together to find out what truly happened. I don't think Horatio would ever actually marry Julia-and even if he started sleeping with her again that would affect his son. Let the boy hope for his parents to get together again and then it won't happen. I would love now that Julia's kinda broke if H mentions that Kyle spends more time at his place. I don't understand why they can't incorporate Kyle's life into H's more like with a mentor/aide program. Or maybe Kyle gets a job there?

boo2221 wrote: Rebecca fights for her own personal glory and win. I have always felt that Horatio was a prize for her to win and then she lost her prize. She is ticked she lost her prize and he embarrassed her in the process.

csimasala5 wrote: I have yet to hear Julia admit to anyone that she still loves Horatio.

csimasala5 wrote: It was always her using the fact that Horatio loved her. …She would ask him only when she was trying to be manipulative and get her way and not be sincere at all.

csimasala5 wrote: …if two people are in love not matter what the situation they would find a way to be together and or stay together. It's still not clear who left who.

csimasala5 wrote: Horatio don't strike me as the type to just walk away from someone he loves. Julia on the other hand will walk way and never look back.

csimasala5 wrote: Ron wanted to know where her head was because if she even let it come out her mouth he would have killed her. That was a fear also of her's yet she stayed with him and married him.

csimasala5 wrote: Now if …I knew that the man I loved was back and he could help me get away from that evil man. I would have ran so far into Horatio arms that Ron would never ever get me to come back.

csimasala5 wrote: the very last words my baby father said was sweet heart …Horatio was reaching out to her then. If she loved him she would have found away to get away from Ron.

csimasala5 wrote: That to me is not the rationale thought process of a Women in love and or distrusting.

csimasala5 wrote: Now it goes to show you how out touch Julia was with knowing what type of man Horatio was, all those years ago.

boo2221 wrote: Well, I think they are neat idea.

kylesangel wrote: I don't think Kyle got in contact with Julia when he was in prison, because Julia asked Horatio in raising Caine, where Kyle was. He may have been dialing those numbers, but he did not get in contact with her. And plus Kyle said to Horatio,"I want to find her." He never got in contact with Julia.

kylesangel wrote: Though it would be nice for Kyle to date, I think he should get to know dad first. I wonder what Horatio and Julia would say.

h-sunglasses wrote: Same as H-Cool, i don't like her, nor trust her

h-sunglasses wrote: yeah. but H still believes that inside her there is someone good.

enhinti wrote: Yes. There is incredible chemistry between H and Yelina. But Yelina had so many chances and blew them all. When Yelina first thought that her husband was dead even after three years she couldn't accept H. She was emotionally closed to H, causing him to always think of her as his brother's wife. When she saw Suzy she assumed logically that Madison was H's daughter, but after all H did for her, she acted as if H had hidden the truth from her for all those years! She had no reason to beleive the H had know about Madison before. She was so judgmental. Yelina is smart and understanding and yet she totally misjudges H! Yelina had her chance to be with H, but rejected him. Now that H has moved on, she should to.

kylesangel wrote: I really don't want them to date I just don't.

boo2221 wrote: He has been reenergized since he has become a full fledge family man.

h-cool wrote: WOW... Have some of you forgotten that Julia was behind the murder of 2 people and has committed fraud and embezzlement for years. Who cares that she was the mother of Kyle. That does not make her a equal or great person. Although, she seems to have a bipolar personality, I think deep down she is a scheming and evil woman.For H, a man who has chased murderers and criminals most his life to put them behind bars and to seek justice for victims and the innocent and who "never gives up" on this goal... this would be a big mistake by the writers and TPTB. I read stuff too on the Net about H wanting Julia to redeem herself in Season 7, but to form a romance between these two would be contradictory to the H-character. CSI:Miami was not in the Top-10 shows this past week and CSI:NY actually surpassed CSI:Miami in ratings. This use to not be the case. I think if the writers or TPTB pursue a romance between these two and continue with the gray and darker tone... ratings are going to continue to slide.Aka: "Board Tweaker", Igo4H and new2csi "KEEP ME POSTED" - Horatio Caine" 4y-1=3b[Nh] is a great actor! Gig'em H!

cle0919 wrote: I wonder if a way to a writer's heart is through the stomach? Maybe all of us should flood the writers with sweet goodies like cake, pastries and such. Perhaps have little frosting messages on each item giving subtle hints?

ahrean wrote: I'll bake cookies and all that as long as it doesnt' involve Julia getting together with H.

ahrean wrote: If H and Julia are brought together romantically it would kill the show for me. Now I am biased because personally I'm not a fan of Berkeley's (scarred by Showgirls I guess) but I also adore this show and like you said, it would just be WAY out of character for H to form another romantic relationship with Julia........

kylesangel wrote: And I would disagree Elizabeth Berkeley is stunning. Everything about her is real, from her hair to everything else. Her eyes are like that because she has this rare condition that caused her eyes to change different colors. They couldn't have picked a better person to play Kyle's mother. I think Evan in a weird way, looks like a mixture of David and Elizabeth.

HDC53 wrote: When Julia was helping Kyle with his tie on the day of his trial, she stepped back to look at Kyle in appraisal and she said, "You are so handsome, like your father." Horatio overheard the comment, but I don't believe she knew his was standing nearby when she said it. That line suggests to me that she sees something of Horatio in Kyle and that contributes to her drive to have her son, beyond the power struggle issue. It also re-inforces for me that despite the tough issues between Horatio and Julia, there is evidence to suggest that their affair had been intense and passionate.

HDC53 wrote: It also re-inforces for me that despite the tough issues between Horatio and Julia, there is evidence to suggest that their affair had been intense and passionate. I still don't believe Julia is worth the powder to blow her to Hell, but I am one of the first people to admit the influence of sexual passion in a romance and its power to form a primal bond, regardless of how "wise" or "logical" it is. Whether I like it not, Kyle is the product of their passion for each other.

cle0919 wrote: ...if Julia left Kyle with her mother, no mention of her father by the way, then why is there two guardians, the Armstrongs, listed on Kyle's birth cert [foster record]? And at that time, if Armstrong was her mother and father's last name, then why did H only know her as Julia Eberly? This could reveal that she has lied to him from the very beginning and is still lying to him. Three, I do not think Julia left Kyle left him with her mother. I think CPS took Kyle away from her and that is why she never contacted her mother or Kyle.

Julia is still weaving lies of deception and I believe she is still hiding a few major skeletons in her closet that when they are revealed, it is going to blow everyone away.

boo2221 wrote: I don't think mentaltelepthy will work, but at this point I am desperate and will try anything.

BethHK wrote: For instance, in "Ambush" when she came to tell Horatio that he was going to be extradited, she lied and told him that it had nothing to do with Ron, while they had just shown in the previous scene that she was doing it because of Ron. Further more, she even admitted to lying in "Bombshell" when she said "I lie to you, John, I do. But then again, you lie to me too, don't you John Walden?" I think practically everything she says is a lie. Why should I believe anything she says when she's already proven herself untrustworthy? I think that scene in "Bombshell" where she is having her breakdown was probably the most honest she has ever been.

kylesangel wrote: But is she somewhat guilty, yes.

boo2221 wrote: Based on how we all each feel about the character of Julia, we will read our own interruptation into the character's actions and gestures. Some will see all bad, some will see the gray. I see the gray with hopes that the writers will give me a good plausable story that Berkley and Caruso will portray with honest emotion and intelligance. Throw in Ellingson's part and we have a good solid story with mystery, intrigue, and family dynamics.

syncgal168 wrote: H and Julia are really not the right people for each other. ...H can do so much better than her!!!!

h-cool wrote: OK Energizer Bunny... I found an ole' Horatio and Yelina thread on like page 19 of the General Comments Section and "resurrected" it. I'm glad you suggested we discuss the "YeaH" subject on another thread besides this "H and Evil Julia" thread because I think I've started a Novel on that ole' thread!See Ya there! H-COOL [/color]

boo2221 wrote: The show is up to Episode 16 and that takes them to mid-February. Kyle is not in the January ones or the 2 for February.

HDC53 wrote: Your comments struck a cord with me. Horatio's relationships with women 20 years younger are an insult both to the character of Lt. Horatio Caine and to the core of female fans over 40 years old. There are many beautiful, fit and sexy actresses (characters) over 40 who could offer a deep, but electrifying connection with Horatio. I especially feel annoyed about this because the onscreen chemistry between Horatio and younger women, such as Julia and Marisol is simply not there and their acting does not sell me that either woman has any real passion or love for the man. No TV fan adores our handsome David (Horatio) more than I do, but from recent episodes it is clear that he has aged. To continue to pair him with young girls will become so implausible, it will look laughable.

h-cool wrote: All I can say on that... those Texas friends must have been from Austin, TX. Most Texans outside of Austin (I'm one of them and mainly grew up most my life in TX) think Austinites are definitely a little "hinky".

h-cool wrote: Excuse me while I go swallow another Pepto-Bismol!!!

h-cool wrote: For a moment, I had a thought that when Julia tried to get info from P.I. Yelina and did not get it, that maybe she went to another P.I., Rossi.

h-cool wrote: Then, that is when Rossi dug up dirt on H in Rio and created that disk.

h-cool wrote: Then knowing the scumbag that Rossi is he then investigated his own client, Julia Winston, and then found out about all the real estate and charity fraud questions and possible illegal dealings of Ron and Julia. Remember what Rossi told H, that he had eyes and ears everywhere?

h-cool wrote: Julia stated money buys a lot of information in Rio.

h-cool wrote: Or what if Rossi was the P.I. hired by Bill Winston's attorney?.

h-cool wrote: Either way, H now has that disk. I would love to know what was on that disk.

h-cool wrote: Also, who do you think tipped Julia off that Yelina was looking into her background?

h-cool wrote: Also, why did Ron not reconnect with Yelina to deliver those fused-alloy rounds? Was he tipped off about her later somehow?

h-cool wrote: Remember the unshown issue about Ron being beat up by supposively gang members?

I wrote:Julia was 29 when she gave birth to Kyle. I know because I've studied Kyle's birth certificate on "Raising Caine" and "Dangerous Son." (I know, I'm pathetic, but I like to know as many facts as I can, so that I can better understand what is going on.) And it said she was born on October 21, 1962.Also, I learned by googling his biography (look at Wikipedia), Horatio was born April 7, 1960, which would have made him 31 when Kyle was born.As a side note: Kyle was born July 6, 1991 at 2:04 (it doesn't say AM or PM) And weighed in at 6lb 7oz.

Enhinti wrote:Thanks, BethHKAs for Julia's age, she simply doesn't look like she's over forty, so I won't believe she is....Whoever was in charge of the props (the actual papers) didn't put the kind of thought into it that they should have for a consistent story....In "Dangerous Son" when H asks Kyle when he was born, Kyle replies "July 21st 1991." I believe this to be his birth date.In season 1, H tells Calleigh that he is 45. I don't know where 1960 came up, but H has to be 51 right now. (Older then my mother!)I'll take H's word over a prop paper that no one expected the audience to read.

BethHK wrote: I wrote this all the way back on page 15 of this thread, but since this topic has come up again and people seem to have forgotten what I said, I thought I would remind everyone.

BethHK wrote: Anyway, Kyles' birth certificate in both "Dangerous Son" and "Raising Caine" said that Julia was born October 21, 1962.

BethHK wrote: Also, I would have believed you about Horatio's birth date, but since you didn't tell me where you got that information, I couldn't verify it. I tried, but I don't really want to watch every episode again just to find that, especially since I don't own those episodes, I have to try and find them online.

BethHK wrote: Again, I am really sorry to be a jerk about this, but when people blatantly ignore me, and disregard what I say, especially when I know I'm right, I get a little grumpy.

boo2221 wrote: enhinti- How about "Holia"?

boo2221 wrote: No, I was writing "Holia" not "Hulia". The pronunciation is different.

boo2221 wrote: …I think this is one of the reasons why I like the reason of the introduction of character of Julia. She is not this perfect woman that we all think that Horatio should have.

boo2221 wrote: Because of the tragedy of his life the character of Horatio seemed to be drawn to the pure woman in order to find some kind of goodness, happiness, and redemption.

boo2221 wrote: Than along comes the character of Julia who storms on the scene as the anti-woman who enters his life.

boo2221 wrote: I was one of the first people to express myself on how theis wicked woman needed to br removed from Horatio and Kyle's lives at the end of the first episode because she didn't fit into our ideals or standards for our character and his son.

boo2221 wrote: When the writers came back from the strike, I watched carefully what they did with the character of Julia and saw the potential they were creating for this new type of woman in his life. She was not all good and she was not all bad. She was full of the complexity and demons as the character of Horatio. (Also we only have had 6 episode with her and with each episode the character is developing.) I personally liked what I was seeing.

boo2221 wrote: Another key thing that the writers gave us was that we are given no indication that she ever interferred with the father-son relationship. I was given the impression that she respected that.…It was key for me to see Julia step and back to give Horatio a private time to talk to his son about what he was going to do to protect him and his mother. The second key scene was when was Kyle walked away upset that he was thought he would not see his father again and she has a concerned looked on her face and arm around her son as any mother would ready to explain the situation to her son. The third key scene is when we see them in the room together and he asked his mother where she is going that they would be "meeting dad in an hour". He was very comfortable and understanding about what was happenning and why his father was doing what he was doing. I felt that was because of his mother explaining the situation. The final and fourth key scene that seal the deal for me was the interaction between them as a family in "Resurrection" There was such a level of intimacy between them as a family that they understood the level of danger that was involved with the situation and they were all truly worried about each other and questioning and debating about what needed to be done next.

boo2221 wrote: I am sorry, but there is this level of connection, understanding of each other's situation, and equalness that I really see between these 2 characters that I feel click that has not clicked with any other female character.

boo2221 wrote: Concerning the issue that she has lied to him, he knows and she knows he knows that. That fact that she admitted lying to him is no big revelation to him and she knew that too.

BethHK wrote: Julia was 29 when she gave birth to Kyle. I know because I've studied Kyle's birth certificate on "Raising Caine" and "Dangerous Son."

kylesangel wrote: I don't know what to think about the situation with Julia and Horatio. All I know is that they are trying to work together to raise their son. What the writers need to do is give us some more, if not I will make a trip down there myself and straitened everything out.

BethHK wrote: Also, I would have believed you about Horatio's birth date, but since you didn't tell me where you got that information, I couldn't verify it. I tried, but I don't really want to watch every episode again just to find that, especially since I don't own those episodes, I have to try and find them online. I didn't say that I read H's birth date on a prop, I said I found it online by googleing his biography. Every website I look at says Horatio was born April 7, 1960.

BethHK wrote: Enhinti you can believe whatever you want,

h-cool wrote: Hey Enhinti: I don't see chemistry between DC and Berkley that sparks or burns to high heaven. Maybe, a little lust for Julia's assets but no real onscreen chemistry.

csimasala5 wrote: Horatio is so passionate and caring about everyone he meets and help. If you look closely he does not forgive easily either. I know that when he finds out that you have betrayed him he steps off of you and keep watch on you closely.

csimasala5 wrote: I realized this when Rebbecca the DA showed her shark teeth on a case they were working she made him realize she is not the woman for him. That episode is when I really fell in love with him. She had no professional morals Horatio picked up on it and told her to her face when she asked if he was coming over later. "No I don't think so!" I mean the look on her face after that was priceless.

csimasala5 wrote: In the situation with Julia had she walked on the show as just Julia Winston and not got involve with Ron and they had not found Kyle yet. I think she might have had a chance with Horatio if she would have told him about there So so they could find him together.

csimasala5 wrote: I think we all can agree that Julia has a trust issue with Horatio! I mean Kyle father who is a law enforcement detective tried to warn and help her get a way from Ron Saris and she still stayed with him, then married him.

csimasala5 wrote: I do believe he gave Kyle the gun and registered it and showed him how to use it because of the situation with Ron and Julia.

csimasala5 wrote: Then the story line I mean what in the world if the man I truly loved told me he needs to get me and my son out of town because the man I married is a criminal and wanted to kill me for my money, yet she did not think she would ever hear from Horatio again knowing Ron would have had something to do with putting a hit out on Horatio and kill him.

csimasala5 wrote: She was still taking Kyle and leaving with the crazy man! I am sorry I know Julia has issue's but if I had a chance of having my son and the man I love back in my life you only have to tell me once and I would be right by his side.

csimasala5 wrote: Julia wanted us to believe she was afraid of Ron, and I don't doubt that would be a reason why she did what she did by staying and marrying him.

csimasala5 wrote: But it is not that much fear in the world to make me want to put my child in danger with a ja mad man. Horatio had to persuade her twice to get away from Ron.

csimasala5 wrote: Still she knew what the crazy man was into. she knew he killed Kathleen Newberry, among other things. She knew he was dealing with criminals in Miami!

csimasala5 wrote: If she loved Horatio I would think I would trust him no matter what Ron said or threaten her with.

csimasala5 wrote: I mean had not Kyle gotten in the system when he did where would all of them be! He would have properly found Julia first and would she have told him about Kyle? Huhum I don't know a question to ponder.

csimasala5 wrote: I think we all can agree that she cannot be trusted.

csimasala5 wrote: I think she does not even realize how deceitful she can be. When you have been doing a certain thing for a long time to survive it's like calling right wrong and wrong right! you cannot tell the difference after a while.

csimasala5 wrote: I do believe she manipulated that guy into killing her husband. When she found out about the divorce.

csimasala5 wrote: I mean she went as far as giving a woman a million dollars to save her son!

csimasala5 wrote: Plus she paid her assistant off with money and a house!

csimasala5 wrote: Come on she is a criminal and Horatio knows it. So do you think he could marry someone like that.

csimasala5 wrote: Now that we know Julia has a health issue it looks like Kyle will be care giver to his mother with the help of Horatio! I mean he is so worried about what he may get into living with her.

csimasala5 wrote: the situation with her writing bad checks. She still not going to Horatio who cares for her to help! She still happens to practice her old ways to survive. Now with the house up for sale and she out of a job!

csimasala5 wrote: All I know is this Horatio has been warned 2- or three times about her.

csimasala5 wrote: Don't think he is that stupid or in love that he is not listening to them. I mean he has seen first hand what she is capable of when her back is against the wall.

csimasala5 wrote: I think we also can agree that there are un-resolve issue's with her and Horatio.

csimasala5 wrote: for seven years I have seen him on this emotional roller coaster ride with everyone who comes into his life. the love interest that he has had on the show so far and it has not been many. so far three of them were serious. Yelena, the Lawyer, and Marisol. Anybody else did not have a chance. Study the patterns of Horatio and women and you will see what I mean.

csimasala5 wrote: She needs therapy to deal with her demons and she needs healing from what ever her past has done to her. I mean Julia is carrying a lot of baggage!

csimasala5 wrote: So I don't mean to rain on your parade about them but a relationship after they build her up to be this harden and irresponsible individual I don't know about the getting together. Horatio has a high standard when it comes to women.

csimasala5 wrote: Enhinti,Your responses are very good! It is clear that the emotional side of Julia and H from the fans are equally logical.

csimasala5 wrote: The lawyer I am referring to is not Rebecka but the Lawyer that was handling his case in his Father murder. Rebbecca the DA Like I said he dropped her like a bad habit. But he really had feelings for The Lawyer in the episode with Risden.

kylesangel wrote: I love the term GrayShades, maybe when me and Boo (and anyone else who wants to come) go and confront the writers we'll throw that term in.

enhinti wrote:

csimasala5 wrote: All I know is this Horatio has been warned 2- or three times about her.

Not sure where you get three. The financier warned H in “Bombshell.” Rob didn’t warn H, he whined to Calleigh but Calleigh wasn’t sympathetic. (“Raising Caine.”) The crummy lawyer sort of bad mouthed Julia to H and Eric, but it wasn’t a warning. (“Raising Caine.”) You’ll have to explain this one to me, because I can’t think of another incident.

boo2221 wrote: After reading both disertations, …

boo2221 wrote: …I am more pumped on the idea of Julia being the right match for Horatio. As I read your pieces, I kept comparing the info to what I have seen of Julia so far. Julia is the anti of both Yelina and Marisol.

h-cool wrote: I briefly scanned it... but don't know when I will get back to you.

h-cool wrote: I did not know it was a "Yelina debate" on the other thread. Initially my intention was to just explain my thoughts on the subject and why I didn't agree with some of your comments about Yelina on this thread.

boo2221 wrote: …And then I see Kyle and Julia on the other side. Both strong, independent, and fighters. Each surviving in their own way. Kyle loves his father very much and looks up to him and respects, but he is not his savior and he works to try to handle situations on his own.

h-cool wrote:

enhinti wrote:

h- - ool wrote: Hey Enhinti: I don't see chemistry between DC and Berkley that sparks or burns to high heaven. Maybe, a little lust for Julia's assets but no real onscreen chemistry.

H-Cool If you want to interpret that scene as H was being a "naughty boy," be my guest!

Actually, I was just relating to your earlier comment in the thread...

enhinti wrote: You know in "Raising Caine," when H has Julia in the interrogation room. Julia is sitting and H is standing on the other side of the table, looking down at her. I noticed that H's eyes seem to go from Julia's face down to her breast and then back up to her face.

The "naughty" one is... She-devil = Julia! H-COOL

enhinti wrote: You know in "Raising Caine," when H has Julia in the interrogation room. Julia is sitting and H is standing on the other side of the table, looking down at her. I noticed that H's eyes seem to go from Julia's face down to her breast and then back up to her face.

h-cool wrote: Hey Enhinti: I don't see chemistry between DC and Berkley that sparks or burns to high heaven. Maybe, a little lust for Julia's assets but no real onscreen chemistry.

enhinti wrote: H-Cool If you want to interpret that scene as H was being a "naughty boy," be my guest!

h-cool wrote: The "naughty" one is... She-devil = Julia! H-COOL

h-cool wrote: By the way... I liked Yelina, but Julia is still on my "I don't trust" and "Vamp" List! H-COOL

h-cool wrote: Hey Boo: I agree that Julia is anti-women. She is a She-devil, of course!!! H-COOL

h-cool wrote: You mentioned the Christmas picture on Yelina’s desk that was focused on in several episodes. Seems like you are putting a lot of weight on this picture for someone who has stated you don’t put a lot of weight on props.

sahara0519 wrote: [b][i] I WOULD HATE FOR HORATIO AND HER TO GET BACK TOGETHER THAT WOULD BE AWFUL I THINK HE WOULD BE BETTER OF WITH HELINA SHE IS FAR NICER AND THEY ARE WELL SUITED AS A COUPLE. HORATIO HAS SOME BAD LUCK IN THE PASS ESPECIALLY WHEN DELKO,S SISTER AND HORATIO,S WIFE WAS KILLED

kylesangel wrote: No it's alright, I wasn't a marisol fan... But thanks for the information

boo2221 wrote: Finally with the help of Kylesangel I got to the page. :

lovemiami2 wrote: The picture you are referring to was the closing sceen of an episode. After H kissed Julia on the head and sat down beside her, she gave him a look that said to me, "Good, I have him where I want him--I can use him." I have to agree with H-Sunglasses. I don't want them together. I don't trust her. I do want to see more of her though. She brings an interesting dynamic to the show.I've been off the board for a while--it's good to be back.

lovemiami2 wrote: The picture you are referring to was the closing sceen of an episode. After H kissed Julia on the head and sat down beside her, she gave him a look that said to me, "Good, I have him where I want him--I can use him." I have to agree with H-Sunglasses. I don't want them together. I don't trust her. I do want to see more of her though. She brings an interesting dynamic to the show.I've been off the board for a while--it's good to be back.

moosh1995 wrote: Hello....You all now me as boo2221, but because I logged out by mistake the other night and couldn't remember my password, I had to change my password. The site has been giving me a problem. It would tell me I successfully changed it and then have me login and then tell me that there was a "password mismatch". If anyone can tell me how this can be fixed, that will be wonderful. Meanwhile I am "Moosh1995" Call me "Mooshie"

jacqui61 wrote: Will someone take a hit on Julia if I pay enough

moosh1995 wrote: Hello. - ..You all now me as boo2221, but because I logged out by mistake the other night and couldn't remember my password, I had to change my password. The site has been giving me a problem. It would tell me I successfully changed it and then have me login and then tell me that there was a "password mismatch". If anyone can tell me how this can be fixed, that will be wonderful. Meanwhile I am "Moosh1995" Call me "Mooshie"

csimasala5 wrote: Also, Julia was the mother of their child and left town without even letting him know she was pregnant.

moosh1995 wrote: enhinti,I just got the magazine. Read the interview carefully. It is interesting. I get the impression that she did not know that "John" was a cop and her life of conning began after she left Kyle with her mother.The writers also will be giving us more stories with Kyle and also with Julia. Mooshie a.k.a. Boo

lovemiami2 wrote: Hmmm, that's an interesting idea -- a work/study program. The problem I see with that is that Kyle has a record. I can't see his being eligible for a program like that at a crime lab.

lovemiami2 wrote: The writers could also come up with stuations where Kyle is the good guy, maybe a good samaritan at an auto accident,or by-stander at a robbery, taking a little kid under his wing till the cops get there, etc. I would find that more believable, especially since his interests have yet to be developed (we don't know if he likes school or sports, or anythng). Besides, I would love to find out that he inherited his dad's heart (see that thread--it's great).

lovemiami2 wrote: Okay, I don't know why my quote button didn't work--it looks like I am responding to myself. I am trying to respond to Enhinit. Sorry for the malfunction.I don't know what you mean by "The picture you are referring to..." but I too know that scene at the very end of "Bombshell." Two people ahead of me were discussing this sceen. One of them said (s)he had that as a picture on her profile.You and I see Julia differently, but I think we agree--it was a fantastic ending the episode.

enhinti wrote:

lovemiami2 wrote: Hmmm, that's an interesting idea -- a work/study program. The problem I see with that is that Kyle has a record. I can't see his being eligible for a program like that at a crime lab.

Not necessarily. Remember that Kyle's crimes were committed as a minor. Even though he was sent to prison and tried as an adult, he was still considered a minor and was released to his mother's custody. His records would be treated as such. When Kyle turns eighteen, his records will be sealed. It would take a court order to view any information on him. You could still check the prison records and find them, and of course any news paper articles but Kyle's actually information would all be sealed. Kyle would essentially have a clean slate. If he makes good in high school and gets into a good college and can get a letter of rec, there is no reason why he should not be able to qualify for an internship at the lab.

lovemiami2 wrote: Okay, let's give him the position in the program! Now, to get the writers to agree.

moosh1995 wrote: enhint-Why "Johnathan" for a middle name?You know "Kyle Evan Caine" has a nice ring to it. Mooshie a.k.a. Boo

bonercera wrote: What he needs to do is just spread his "seed" all over, and I literally mean all over, miami, creating his own army of read headed, sun glasses wearing, over dramatic crime fighters.

What he needs to do is just spread his "seed" all over, and I literally mean all over, miami,

kylesangel wrote: I've always toyed with the possibility that Yelina was jealous of Julia. Thanks for putting in perspective for my fellow GrayShader...

bonercera wrote: horatio cane could have any woman he wants in Miami. Strike that...He could have any woman he wants in the whole world. with that said, horatio doesn't need to tie himself down right now, especially with someone who is carrying as much baggage as julia is. What he needs to do is just spread his "seed" all over, and I literally mean all over, miami, creating his own army of read headed, sun glasses wearing, over dramatic crime fighters. This is the only way to ensure that his beloved Miami will be safe from corruption and pestilence for several generations to come.

bonercera wrote: kylesangle: why don't you just suck all the fun out of everything? why can't i discuss something in a non serious manner... its a freaking tv show, not real life. slow your freaking role. if this was life or death i wouldn't be joking around... but this is a thread about horatio and julia, two fictitious characters in a fictitious show. take a chill pill and have some fun once and awhile and who are you to tell me to leave! are you the csi: miami thread nazi or something. i'm gonna tell you what bonercera is here to stay!!! i'm not going anywhere. i am spartacus!!!! and no i don't have any news about H and Jullia.

bonercera wrote: You continue to exude ignorance. First off… let’s get off attacking the vulgarity of using the phrase “spreading one’s seed.” This phrase is used all the time in holy scriptures, and religious sermons. So to try and say I’m some sort of sexual deviant because I use that phrase is asinine. Secondly, to attack my spelling, is simply ridiculous. I've been laughing at the incomprehension of everyone’s posts for the past two days. I’m pretty sure that I actually saw the word “Romanolgy” in someone’s post. Wow… really… romanology. I’m thinking the actual problem is that you don’t know what real spelling looks like. You are too caught up with your make believe Appalachian trailer park language, to recognize modern english. Furthermore, why are you dictionary.coming the words I use. Am I supposed to be impressed that you know how to do that? Did we already forget about this “What in the world is niceties! that sound like some foreign bug or something.” Now you are going to copy and paste the definition of the word off of dictionary.com like you have exemplary vocab skills. I don’t think so. I’m fed up with the ignorance from you people. My humor is blatantly sardonic, with the intentions of drawing lucid responses from people. If you can’t see and respect that then you are the ones from another planet. Oh god do I wish I had a life that consisted of sitting in front of my computer all day long, eating Doritos, talking to my pet cats, and dreaming that one day I may feel the touch of a man. What a life that would be. In conclusion…feel free to celebrate... I'm done with message boards completely. I thought I'd put my two sense in, create some laughs, and kill some free time, but what I have discovered is that you people live for this. This is your melancholy existence. This is the only wave you will ever make in life. Who am I to come in and make a mockery of your life? My apologies. Don’t forget… it’s never too late for community college.That's Gold.

enhinti wrote: KA Okay everyone! Here's my latest revision of the Father/son episodes1 H, Kyle, and Ray Jr. on a speed boat. They can find a dead body! (It has nothing to do with Julia though) 2 H teaches Kyle how to shoot. Kyle held the gun correctly because he's a pint sized H and not because he actually knows how to use it! Maybe we can find out how Kyle got the gun in the first place! (I hope it's not "hot")3 Kyle changes his name to Caine I like "Kyle Johnathan Caine" but he can have a different middle and really doesn't have to have a middle name at all. Maybe we can find out something of where "Harmon" and "Eberly" come from, and what Julia's original name was. 4 Pamala Osborn is found strangled to death and near her body is found a knife which contains Kyle's blood. Good, we can get rid of that irritating woman. Ron did it of course and planted the knife. Rebecca Nevins wants Kyle to be charged with the murder though. 5 Kyle saves Rebecca Nevins' life. It doesn't have to be from downing. It can be from a burning building or anything. Rebecca is fine but Kyle has to stay at the hospital. Maybe we can find out why Julia left H all those years ago and when she found out he was a cop.

kylesangel wrote: Wait so number four how did the blood from Kyle? Did he hurt Kyle in some way? Like four though.

kylesangel wrote: I like the Julia and suicide thing.

moosh1995 wrote: Hello H-Cool,Working on a dissertation? Mmm......Do your fellow doctorial students know of your secret identity and passion for the show. My father's dissertation work was in zoology. What is yours? I choose Mooshie1995 1)Because everything was used and 2)Mooshie is my 15 year old cat that I got from the pound when I was in grad school. He is my special needs cat. Moosh has crystals in his urine and every 2 weeks I have to buy him special food that costs $53 for 18 lbs. (I have 3 other cats). He also gets contipated once a week and needs to be helped out with that issue. So in other words, no "Mooshie" has nothing to do with CSI Maimi, but he is the reason I hold stock at the vets' office where we go. By the way "GRAYSHADES 4 EVER!!! Have I told u how much I enjoy watching Julia and Horatio together. Most Sincerely Yours, Mooshie a.k.a. Boo

Hey "Mooshie" Boo: That's great that you so lovingly take care of Mooshie. It makes sense that someone who has patience with teenagers would be an animal lover... especially a cat owner. Hmmmm... maybe that explains this obsession with the "She-devil". Cats can be quite bipolar in character too! I'm an animal fan, also! I've rescued and owned several cats, but I admit I tend to be more of a dog fan. Dogs are loyal, often show unconditional love, and less multi-dimensional and gray, you know. I usually always know what my dog is thinking, but with cats... that is not always a known factor. The only dissertation I was referring to... My research and "tweak" posts on this thread into the alternating mania and bizarre behavioral characteristics of a certain so-called "femme fatale" and my future desire for her to make reparations to her victims who were duped by her wile and fraud. Oh, I have studied Zoology too! Let's just say, my knowledge from this would lead me to rather trust or hug a Tasmanian devil than to get close to the "She-devil". "Watch out H, the Bipolar Julia Minefield is laying in wait to bury mines in your path! Tripp might need to stand-by with some heat-resistant, ballistic Kevlar chaps." (CSI:MI "Sneaky" S. Nayar: "...because there's so much to be mined." )Hey, one of my favorite H-lines was just stated on A&E tonight in "Double Cap" #1.19 "You know what they say... you lie down with the (she) devil, you wake up in hell." By the way "NO GREYHAIRS 4 EVER!!!" Sincerely, H-COOL Gig'em H!

h-cool wrote: That's interesting you interpret it that way. However, I guess you know I quoted from the scripted text. It was…Calleigh: "You may be telling the truth, Mr. Mason. But we have no physical evidence tying Julia to the crime, so, unfortunately for you, she's played you perfectly."

h-cool wrote: Again, I’ve got to follow the evidence as it stands. Besides suggestions that you don’t become a billionaire by playing by the rules (inside trading?), it appears the only mistake Bill Winston made was marrying the “She-devil”.Delko: "These are annulment papers, H. Bill was going to dissolve his marriage to Julia based on the grounds that Julia has committed fraud."Hopkins: “That’s right. Just after they got married, Bill asked me to look into her."H: "So you stumbled onto her past."Hopkins: "She claimed to have made millions in Google but, she didn’t have a dime. We uncovered at least five different identities that she used in the past."(Names that Jumped off the page: "Julia Winston,” “known as,” “Carla Robertson,” “Julia Eberly,” “Kimberly Johnson”)Delko: "Well, what tipped him off?"Hopkins: "The Windsail Key deal. She cut their honeymoon short to close it so, he figured anyone that concerned with a payday must really need it." H: "So she was using him."Hopkins: "Yeah, well… in his world, everyone uses everyone, but the playing field’s got to start level."Delko: "Well… why go ahead with the Windsail Key auction anyway?"Hopkins: "He was going to public out her in front of everyone, so she couldn’t dupe anyone in private."

h-cool wrote: Now, C’mon…why you still picking on Yelina?

h-cool wrote: I think it’s funny that you mentioned their ages. Sofia Milos is 43 and I think she looks great for her age. I've never found a posted B/D for her character. Elizabeth Berkley is 34 but her character "Julia" is suppose to be 46 years old and born on 10/21/62. So, who’s older?

h-cool wrote: The evidence presented that there was "no evidence" presented that Bill Winston was a creep or that Lawyer Larry Hopkins lied about Julia's questionable past history. To quote you, "No evidence means no nothing."

h-cool wrote: It was confirmed that Julia had numerous run-ins with the law in the past; just nothing ever stuck. Like H, I trust the source.

h-cool wrote: I stand corrected. I know not to trust Wikipedia, but I was in a hurry. It says, 7/28/74.I like the 36 and 1/2. I guess I should say that Sofia is 43 and 1/4 years old.

h-cool wrote: Because of the discussion between BethHK and you on Kyle’s birth certificate, as a "Clue Hunter and Theory Club" member, I just could not resist and had to check it out. Besides some fuzzy edges, it's pretty darn clear on my little inexpensive Sony DVD Player. Although, I agree that it did not appear to be an intentional viewer focused-prop since the camera time was so short on it. The camera did zoom in on it and someone in props took care and time filling out the info. Similar info and dates match on Kyle’s child services paperwork and H’s petition custody paperwork. Since it is the only presented evidence so far in the show on how old Julia is, I’ll go with it.

enhinti wrote:

h-cool wrote: That's interesting you interpret it that way. However, I guess you know I quoted from the scripted text. It was…Calleigh: "You may be telling the truth, Mr. Mason. But we have no physical evidence tying Julia to the crime, so, unfortunately for you, she's played you perfectly."

Okeedoke! I'll look it up. Be patient, though. As I don't have any of the first six seasons, I have to beg/borrow/steal!

h-cool wrote: Hey TPTB: Bringing H and Kyle back in March would be Cool! Maybe, a Spring fishing trip would be nice!But... leave the "She-devil Julia" in a leaky pirogue up a creek and without a paddle. Maybe, even where Eric's buddy, Jeff Corwin and all the Crocs hang out... near the nuke plant! Radioactive Hazardous Waste and the "She-devil" a similar chemistry in deed! Time to "Go Green" and "can" the hazwaste!!! H-COOL Gig'em H!

mwestmount wrote: Leave her to rot in her own filth somewhere.

moosh1995 wrote: Actually he is a momma and daddy's boy.

enhinti wrote:

mwestmount wrote: Leave her to rot in her own filth somewhere.

That was disgusting M.

h-cool wrote: My H-COOL "gut instinct" thinks I should say no...But, lay it on me... Teacher "Mooshie" Boo!

h-cool wrote:

mo - sh1995 wrote: Echo was a nymph who distracted Juno/Hera with endless chatter for Juppiter/Zeus while he carried on many affairs. When Juno/Hera found out she punished Echo that the only words she could say were the one already said by others. So she could only repeated or echo other people's word. Mooshie Boo

Cool... I like it!

kylesangel wrote: Well the script read Gallery day so it is possible that Kyle does not work there he is just visiting, maybe bring your kid to work day or something, but I don't think he works there.

moosh1995 wrote: Right now, I am personally going through a difficult time and well,.....

has5152 wrote: Hey guys. i am new here. I found some new info on Horatio , Julia and Kyle in upcoming episodes According to spoiler TV i found that in the 17th episode titled Divorce party Horatio tries to save Kyle from Julia's erratic Behavior. I hope something bad doesn't happened to Kyle. here's what it says on the website Divorce Party" - The CSIs make a shocking discovery about their murder victim, while Horatio tries to save his son from Julia's erratic behavior, on CSI: MIAMI, Monday, March 9 This might cause changes in Horatio and Julia's realtionship.

enhinti wrote: Welcome! Welcome! Welcome! I like the way you think SuperGypsy! I'ma total Grayshades shipper! I think that Julia offers so much to H and the show. The kind of dynamic that they have just didn't exist between H and any of his past beloveds. Not even Yelina. I certainly hope that they do not write her off as 2D after they spent so much time an effort establishing a deep and intricate character. I don't know what it in store, but I can say this, according to Berkley they are just beginning! If this is true we should be seeing some of her for quite a while. We also started a Grayshades thread if you want to post there as well.

mwestmount wrote: Hey Enhinti, I get what you are saying. And now that I think about it, I agree that she brings something to the show. I like to dislike her. I don't like her, but that doesn't mean I don't want her there. Her character is bizarre but at least she has a character. More than I can say for some. M

SuperGypsy wrote: I agree, Julia has great potential, but I really hope this hint of upcoming "erratic behavior" doesn't mean the writers are going to have her go crazy, especially after the way she came unglued during 'Bombshell'.

kylesangel wrote: Well enhinthi that is not what the other sites are saying.... What a source is saying..... Horatio might just take Kyle from Julia..... But I don't know we just will have to wait and see.... Me personally I think that Julia is a wonderful character but someone in an advance bipolar state who is not taking their meds should not be taking care of anyone because they are not taking care of themselves.

TvLover94 wrote: hahaha i think they will get together i dont care what people are sayin

First of all, I don't see it as a H/J/K storyline, I see it as a Horatio/Kyle storyline with Julia and all her issues as a sub plot. They introduced Kyle first, alone, in "Dangerous Son" and mentioned Julia as a side note to explain how it happened that Horatio had a son he didn't know about. If the writers wanted Julia to be a main member of this, why didn't they introduce them together? Why have her abandoning her son? Then when they finally brought Julia in, I was under the impression that they were using her as a mechanism to get Kyle out of prison. (Although, I thought they could have done that other ways, without Julia and without making Kathleen Newberry a victim again.) Now, I will admit that they sort of built up to Julia's introduction by having Kyle "want to find her" in "Chain reaction", but I still see her as a sub plot with the main emphasis on Horatio and Kyle.

Also, why does Julia get such a free pass? Not even Kyle got treated as nonchalantly as Julia. Kyle was arrested, thrown into an adult jail, and put on trial for what he did, despite him being 16 years old, an orphan, and having been blackmailed into it. And the prosecutor, Rebbecca Nevins, even tried to pin Oscar's murder on him by using the testimony of a known hardened criminal who had kidnapped and threatened to kill him.

Actually, it really bugs me that the writers have taken so long to wrap up her issues/plot line. They have had over a year to uncover her mysteries and they haven't done it. It feels like they've been dragging it out indefinitely. And I think Kathleen Newberry deserves justice, and I don't buy Julia's claim to have had nothing to do with that.

I totally agree, but you know, from the start they presented Julia as both a deep and interesting character and one with a great deal or strength and fear. This made her so human and believable. They just nailed it on every episode, handling her words very carefully, and Berkley really stepped up to the plate and gave a convincing performance. If they have gotten it right thus far. I think we can trust them to continue doing a great job.

Ok! I think that it is safe to say the Romance in that Relationship Is Gone out the barn door with the Chicken's! Lol.... That look Horatio gave her after telling her to let Kyle go said it all!

I didn't see it that way at all! They have put Julia on hold to develop Kyle more. They didn't rip it away, they just didn't move forward.

Now that Julia is by her self again she will have this opportunity to wise up and get help. She didn't when having Kyle, so maybe "loosing" him will cause her to seek therapy. Julia and H are being consistent, and that is all we can except for now.Further appearances will determine where they are going with this.

Then again I don't know if you guy's are reading body language and what was happening just in those short scenes with her and Horatio. Horatio realizes he can't help her if she don't' want to be help! It's all on her and it looks like she is truly back to the Julia she was in season 6. So it will be interesting to see where this is going.

The way I see it is this: with Julia out of the way, whether she's in jail, dead, or just written off the show,Horatio and Kyle will bond further- I hope they do. Seeing Horatio in a fatherly, mentoring light would be great- sort of a preview of DC with his own son when he's a teen. Who wouldn't like to see Horatio with a little more humanity added to his character? Don't get me wrong, I love DC and Horatio is great, but this season our H has been amazingly stoic- come on, Caruso! Give us a smile!

When H finds conclusive evidence that Julia did commit murder or when H find conclusive evidence that she did not commit murder, then their relationship will change again. Until then, we have to be patient with this "back and forth" stuff. Remember, H and Yelina did that for two seasons!

Whoa... I see that the energizer bunnies are keeping this thread going and going.

I think some folks just don't want Julia to turn "wacko" or "bad" because she is Kyle's biological mom, and they don't want Kyle to have a "she-devil mom".As I have posted before, there is more to being a mom than giving birth to a child. Julia has a mental illness (something... I agree with Hiphuggybear was an afterthought by post-strike writers and not originally planned) but she, too, has made bad choices which have had serious consequences. Upon getting custody of Kyle, she told H she had skeletons in her past, but she was willing to give them up for Kyle, but this Season there has been little evidence she has really attempted to do this. Actually, the writers and Berkley have done a good job in just giving the character more of a "snippy" and "irratating" attitude which has just made me dislike her more. As I mentioned long ago, I knew someone that was bipolar. Although, you have compassion for them for having a mental illness, they very much seem to be caught up in the me and what they want, and how they feel, and there is little evidence of them really caring for what others feel or need. No "sacrificing of one's self" for others type traits.

Do I want my H-ERO to have a romantic relationship with "Julia.... HECK NO... GOSH NO! He deserves someone who is a caretaker and loving person too. Do I think the writers will let Julia go totally wacko or bad? I don't think they would do this to Kyle fans. I think, ultimately there will be a redeption in the end. There are hints that H will actually defend her in court and prove to the Judge that he did not remove Kyle from Julia because of the Tara pills. I suspect it has more to do with her irractic behavior (maybe even the possible threat of a Saris' return). Kyle needs stability anda parent, and with Julia... He was having to be the parent in an irractic environment.

Last... H was kissed by Yelina at the end of "Big Brother". Just as H's kiss to Julia in "Going Balistic" was not a romantic kiss, but more of a caring, "I'm here kiss"... Yelina's was a caring and "thank you" kiss. Because, I have always like the chemistry, care and trust between H and Yelina and that Sofia Milos is a very good actress and helped establish an enduring character that many fans love, I'm excited about the season finale and how H will have to save her from the Russian Mob.

H-COOL

Seriously, how do you really feel about Julia. LOL!!!!

Did you get a chance to write a reply to my last Yelina rant on the Yelina/H thread? I'm really looking forward to reading it.

Catch you later.

Ohh please!!!!!!!!

I was a fan of Horatio/Kyle BEFORE Horatio happened upon Julia............

Randomly happening upon Kyle was chance enough. But to happen upon the boy's mother only a few months later...that's stretching it, just a little! But to try and tell me that they might still have a chance romantically/have feelings for each other...Yeah Right. However scapegoat like it may be, somebodies got to pay the piper for poor Kyle growing up an orphan. And it can't be Horatio, which means.....

I'm tired of this debate!!!! I'm tired of this TOPIC!!!!! I'M TIRED OF JULIA!!!!!

Spoiler Alert:

I'm looking forward to Julia making a complete wacked out fool of herself in front of Kyle in episode 7.24. I hope it will be worth the year long wait I've had to endure of her. And hopefully she'll soon disappear back into the writers swirling vortex of darkness from whence she came.

Is ur computer working again?

moosh1995 wrote:

My Dear H-COOL,

Seriously, how do you really feel about Julia. LOL!!!!

Hey Mooshie Boo: I just want you to know I posted with great restraint!

In reality, I would like to send her straight to the Moon! (My Karate face doing the "Hiyah"!)

But, hey,I'll root for the H-kid just for you! H-COOL

enhinti wrote: Hi H-Cool

Did you get a chance to write a reply to my last Yelina rant on the Yelina/H thread? I'm really looking forward to reading it.

Catch you later.

Hi Enhinti: When did you post on it? I quit getting email replys on the YEaH thread, I think a million years ago. I figured it had goneto the "Board Boneyard" with the rest of the dinosaur threads. H-COOL

roscoetrek wrote:

Thanks for welcomin' me, h-cool!
Okay, since H can't possibly be with Julia. The only likely candidate is, well... Yelina. We can all agree that Yelina & H trust each other with their lives, so let's hope for good outcome in the season finale.

As much as I would like the YEaH union, somehow Ithink TPTB will have H save Yelina in season finale because that is what he has always done. He has always been protector to her and Ray Jr. Plus, she is undercover and has been helping him in foiling the Russian Mob and protecting Eric. I think, H would have great difficulty if something would happen to her. Not only because of their past relationship and attraction, but because she trusts him and is doing this dangerous undercover work for him. But.... "Yeah", I'll hope for a good "YEaH" outcome. H-COOL

Not sure when it was. I'll say early Jan. You mentioned Y/H so I was wondering if you had had some time to write a reply. If not, I can wait another "million years." Haha! Always love our little "debates" !

He's so... so... H like!

h-cool wrote:

moosh1995 wrote:

My Dear H-COOL,

Seriously, how do you really feel about Julia. LOL!!!!

Hey Mooshie Boo: I just want you to know I posted with great restraint!

In reality, I would like to send her straight to the Moon! (My Karate face doing the "Hiyah"!)

But, hey,I'll root for the H-kid just for you! H-COOL

Would the moon really be far enough???

Spill it. We want to hear from you sistah: Do you like Kyle?

I adore Kyle. I feel like we are watching Horatio when he was young. If Iwas asked to choose who I wanted to stay on the show Julia or Kyle-It would be Kyle hands down. I love the character. I would love having son like him.

Sincerely,

Mooshie Boo

PS

Why don't you friend me on the board?