boo2221 wrote: Oooooo.......... By the way, while you all are typing on this post can you come over to mine and say how much we need to see Kyle and Horatio agian. I am so tortured right now. I just want another story with them.....and another....okay, and another.What can I say, I 'm needy

h-cool wrote: Great analyzing and thought, cle0919. We don't really know Julia's full background. H told Frank Tripp in "Raising Caine" #6.13 that Julia was a nurse in a military hospital in Pensacola when he met her while working undercover. So, I don't get a feeling that she was a criminal when they first met.To me... I do get a feeling that she is scared of Ron Saris, she wants to protect H and Kyle, and that Ron was probably her embezzling and long-time partner in crime even before she married and became Mrs. Winston.H-COOL

boo2221 wrote: This is very much how I have presented many times before how Julia's character can be plausibly redeemed by the writers.The trust issue-interesting touch. I feel that Julia completely trusts Horatio with Kyle and will protect him. Because of their unresolved issues and her deep feelings for him, she may not only know if she can trust him where she is concern, but also can she trust herself around him. She always seemed to try to be cool and restrained around him in past episodes.

kylesangel wrote: I got a question, why would she not trust herself around Kyle? Do you think that she might feel like she will fail him or something? I think when it comes to Kyle, Julia might be trying to compensate for the time she spent apart from him? The car, the money, everything... Maybe she feels she has to go material because Horatio beats her in the emotional/ physical aspect of the parenthood? Also H-cool, I have noticed that Horatio refers to Kyle as "My son," never "Our son." I always wonderd about that

kylesangel wrote: I got a question, why would she not trust herself around Kyle? Do you think that she might feel like she will fail him or something? I think when it comes to Kyle, Julia might be trying to compensate for the time she spent apart from him? The car, the money, everything... Maybe she feels she has to go material because Horatio beats her in the emotional/ physical aspect of the parenthood? Also H-cool, I have noticed that Horatio refers to Kyle as "My son," never "Our son." I always wondered about that

kylesangel wrote: Oh okay, but I think even before we found out she had the disorder she needed to give Kyle all these things. Like we knew Kyle did not know his father did all those things for him, but when Julia said she had the car for him, we knew who he was going for. Though Kyle said that he had always wanted to find his mother, I am a young person and if someone had a car waiting for me, I would take it too. It was clear that Horatio wanted Kyle to choose him, I just think that Julia needs to prove her worth to Kyle.

BethHK wrote: I would just like to point out something that seems to have either been forgotten or ignored. And that is, that redemption is different than innocence . For someone to redeem themselves it requires that they were guilty. It requires them to admit they were guilty, apologize and make things right (or kill themselves in the attempt), accept their punishment (their jail sentence), turn from it (whatever they were guilty of), and never do it again. Based on some of the posts I've read it seems to me that many think Julia may be innocent, or at the very most a victimized pawn. This is different than redeeming her. A completely guilty and charged criminal can redeem themselves, but that doesn't make them innocent. Our entire criminal justice system here in the U.S. is based on the assumption that the evil doers can and will redeem themselves, get out of prison, and lead normal healthy lives. Otherwise why would we ever release them back into society. This is why I say that the idea of a Julia Redemption implies that Julia is guilty. Now whether she will be redeemed is yet to be determined.

boo2221 wrote: People,People!!I need to clarify quicky my statement before someone else responds to it:I was referring to the fact that she may not trust herself aound HORATIO not Kyle. She is very comfortable with her son. I was referring to that she was cool and restrained around HORATIO not Kyle. She is relaxed with her son.Redemption can also be in refences to a person's moral actions. Plausible explaination for way she left Horatio and Kyle.

csimasala5 wrote: en - inti,H was in the military when he met Julia 17 years ago in Pensacola he was under cover and went by the name of John. he was under a different name. Although there has only been short episodes now about Julia and Kyle a lot was said about them. [b]

csimasala5 wrote: Yelena did look into Kyle and Julia back ground which she did find out that kyle was place in foster care after either Julia mother could not take care of him or she may have died.That is not clear yet. Julia told H. she meant to go back to get Kyle from her mother but never said why. I think it is safe to say that she was not keeping up on the where a bout's of Kyle for several years. It does not even seem that she had talk to her mother in several years. Kyle had one phone number for her in Pensacola which Horatio recognized the number when Kyle tried to call her from jail. I don't doubt it was either his grandmother's phone number or the last place she stayed in Pensacola. [b]

csimasala5 wrote: Yelena also found out about the crime's she and Ron committed but where never found guilty on any of the charges.Some of it was passing bad checks also. A lot of it had to do with her using alias and They were crimes of fraud and embezzling. [b]

csimasala5 wrote: Yes it is true that H. did not know where Julia or what she was doing those years but it does not take a rocket science to know that she was not living right. [b]

csimasala5 wrote: I think I might have heard H. say to her he wants your money that you have acquired over the years how ever you acquired it Ron wanted kill her and Kyle and take her money she accumulated over the years. [b]

csimasala5 wrote: Julia married Mr.Winston only to do the same thing to him she did to all the others. [b]

csimasala5 wrote: The reason this is true is because Julia admitted that she found out about them when she saw them on the desk. When she went into his office for something. [b]

csimasala5 wrote: The lawyer took them claiming he was protecting Mr.Winston. Calleigh asked him for the papers and he told her he would hand them over after she got a Subpeona. There was a scene where Julia was talking to the individual who killed Mr. Winston and even though Horatio could never prove her involvement in the actual murder. like all the rest he warned Horatio about her manipulative ways. [b]

csimasala5 wrote: It's all in the details and dialogue sometimes you can miss a lot if you are not paying attention. [b]

csimasala5 wrote: The only reason people use alias is to commit fraud or run from someone or for undercover work. [b]

csimasala5 wrote: When H. asked when was the last time she spoke to Ron she said 5 years and H. said 6 years So in the six years she was dealing with Ron you do the math what were they doing considering Ron was pure evil. [b]

csimasala5 wrote: The illness is a big part of Julia behavior like I said individual with bi-polar disorder are unpredictable in their behavior. The illness allows them to have hallucination and paranoia and schizoid episodes. No matter what if the person is off the medications they don't trust anyone. This makes them disappear for long periods of time.When Julia was having an episode in the living room when H. was talking to her she told him that they all lie, including him mentioning his undercover name 17 years ago. She she was not really with it at that time. H. did explain to her why he went by the name of John when he met her. But Bi-polar disorder will have the them regress to a negative and distrust. not matter what the truth is. [b]

csimasala5 wrote: So she does not trust him only when she is in that state of mind, Even when Kyle was fighting with the neighbor and she was having hallucination she was in what we call a state of auditory hallucination. It's when the people around her seems as if they are attacking you. [b]

csimasala5 wrote: When Julia walked into he room with Horatio and her asst. and Frank, Horatio back was to her When I think either Frank or Horatio asked where Mrs. Winston . Julia walked in and said, Her I am John, but that is not your name now it's Horatio Caine I like it it suites you. So she did know who he was and that he was a cop. [b]

csimasala5 wrote: I guess we all have different in-sights to this story, and that makes all the more interesting so let's wait and see how all of this will play out. [b]

kylesangel wrote: Enhinti,I just wanted to say that when Frank asked Horatio who she was when he was signing the papers, Horatio told him through a flashback, then Frank said custody is as a big step, and Horatio goes I know.

kylesangel wrote: I think everything about her is speculation, until the writers finally clear the air about her.

csimasala5 wrote: - ehinti,As funny as that was don't sell Ray Jr. to short now! I mean the boy has gone through hell and back also. If anything Kyle would have to put him in check. Kyle is a real laid back person, I don't think other then all the crap his gone through He is the type now to get in any trouble unless it 's to help his mother out. Horatio has Kyle on a short lease, He is still on probation and can't afford to get in any trouble. [b]

boo2221 wrote: This is such stimulating discussion going on here. As I have stated many many times before that writers can redeem this character with plausable answers.I must say I am bemused. Many of the ideas of redemption and explanations for actions I talked about after the episode "All In" and commented on through out the summer at different times. If the writers took our different ideas and put them together they would have a solid story for Julia that everyone would support. Maybe that is what the writers are looking for-a solid story everyone could get behind about Julia. I find it interesting that of all the posts they chose this one as one of their Hot Topic and I find their discription for it interesting. They are pushing for us to talk about it after "Bombshell". I think they want to hear from us some solid ideas from us that would have us understand the character of Julia more and be able to view her with shades of gray instead of black and white.Having grown up watching soaps my favorite characters were the ones with shades of gray on the shows. As a matter of fact I remember that in the 80's the anti-hero & herorine was quite popular. Sorry I am dating myself, but this concept did have an affect on other shows both daytime and nightime.If they listen to what we are saying about the redemption or explanation or whatever you want to call it, they can give us a character that we can understand better and get behind.Now I am about to have people spit at me through my email, but if the writers give us the situations that we are talking about for Julia, I feel he has finally met his match. They would prove her to be the developed and multifaceted female character needed to interact with Horatio. And let's face it, caruso has shown that Horatio has many sides and does a good job at going from either ends of the gray spectrum.I liked Yelina and Marisol just fine, but their characters did not have the complexity and strength that is needed to play opposite Horatio's character. Think about it, there is a reason why many felt that Horatio and Calleigh click. The character of Calleigh has the complexity and strength. We know Julia's character has the complexity, but yes, the character also has the stregth. Go back and watch the episodes with Berkley. She has been given the opportunity to show the steel in her character and the vulnerability in the character due to the bi-polar condition.I want the writers to bring it on and how me with what they will due with this graet family dynamics of Horatio/Kyle/Julia. The possibilities are amazing.I realize that due to my email I am about to get some verbal email lashings.

h-cool wrote: Ok... time for me to weigh back in on this "board tweak". Let's see... Megan Donner said, "The problem with the obvious is it makes you overlook the evidence."But... Since I'm an "H wannabe", I'll go with my instincts on this one... "Julia is not to be trusted!" I can't stand soaps or soap operas. They are just total "mush" and "woosh". :-]> Yuk!And, Heavens... please TPTB don't turn CSI:Miami, my favorite CSI, Cop and Action show into one!H-COOL

I agree, Julia has a very dark side(female Darth Vader). Not to be trusted at all

csimasala5 wrote: - I agree with you all about Julia, I mean she is no doubt the queen of distrust, and two faced. I love Horatio, but his insight to seeing the good in people at specially matters of his heart is that he allows them to get inside his head.Julia dark side, stems from a lot of baggage she has occurred over the years. Mostly likely dealing with men such as the likes of Ron. Every time Horatio arrested someone connected to Julia they always warn him about her. They tell him "She will bring you down to Lt. Don't trust her." No so far she has done that with two men the man who she manipulated into killing Mr. Winston, and The Financial Manager. Now I do believe they both warned Horatio about her. Now Julia has been accused of writing bad checks. Evidently this would not be the first time since we found out early on that she does this. and uses alias. I know he is properly thinking along the lines of her being Kyle mother, and this helpless now sick individual but Horatio baby don't be fooled. She is pure evil.It should be interesting to see how she over comes her financial situation and moving out of that high scale neighborhood. I got a feeling Julia is going to get involve with some other tycoon type rich man who murder is also going to an an issue for Horatio. Putting him right back in the story line of Mr. Winston story line. It's the quit before the storm and I don't doubt before they write her off the show for good. Horatio is going to go through a tale wind of chaos and speculation and family issues with her and Kyle. Horatio cannot give Julia what she is use to, He is to laid back and to calm for her. Then we never know when Ron is going to pop up again, He is properly plotting and planning now the Ultimate revenge on them both. I don't doubt kidnapping Kyle would be a possibility for getting Horatio somewhere and trying to kill him. Well this is a discussion that will keep us guessing for months. [b]

boo2221 wrote: The writers did a great job creating a character we weren't expecting to see as Horatio's one true love and the mother of Kyle. The strike gave the audience 4 months to hate this woman. We saw only one side to her. When the strike was over and they continue to develop the character, many were still frozen on their first image of the character.

boo2221 wrote: Oh please!...Kyle can be continually kidnapped or placed in peril. We love seeing Horatio save his son. It is one of the things that make him such a sexy dad. Besides, Kyle is at the perfect age to have mayhem happen to him. Being Horatio's son I can see him naturally following his dad's lead and looking for the truth, protecting and defending the helpless. But, because of his age he still needs someone keeping aneye on him. He still doesn't quite have all the skill of looking for the truth and being able to keep himself safe in the process. Hence, we need dad there to help and protect him.

csimasala5 wrote: - Julia was really arrogant when Frank slap the cuffs on her in the parking lot and she look at Horatio and said you know you still love me. What did she think he was not going to do his job and let her go! Reality check The one thing I do know about Horatio whether he cares or not He will put your sorry A--in jail if you are wrong.She played a lot with his emotions because she knew he still cared for her no matter how small the emotion was. I know he properly was dealing with mix emotions his own self about and the criminals she has been running around with and her own criminal activities. It is clear that she was not the same woman he met all those years ago. So how do you stop being a nurse and become a full time criminal. How does that happen? she knows just where Horatio weakness is, the fact that he cares. Julia used that to her benefit. Everything she does is out of need for her self. She knew he had just found out about Kyle and he wanted to have Kyle in his life. I mean after all where was she the last 12 years of his life. She said she left Kyle with her mother, ok then why would it have taken 12 years almost for you to go back and find your son if you were so bent on getting him back. That was a lie for Horatio benefit so she would not look like a bad mom. Kyle may have been on her mind, but when she inherited her millions It would have not taken me long to go find my child no matter what kind of money I would have had to spent. Now she properly would say she did not want to expose him to her criminal boyfriends and life style if she did that it would be admitting to her guilt of committing crimes. So she could not very well do that. She could also blame her illness in which case is another excuse for her misguided reason for not going to get her son.When Horatio told her about Kyle being in jail what does she do to make it look like she is a wronged mother. She finds out about his court date and beat Horatio to the punch. She is so manipulative, she properly was betting on Kyle wanting to see her and know who his mother is so she uses that to make it look like she missed him and she never stop loving him and or looking for him. I mean if she knew that the state had taken Kyle then what does that say about her and her mother relationship. I mean was her mother ill and they took Kyle because she could not care for him anymore or did her mother die and Julia just left and never look back. I mean Gee you didn't even call to see if your own mother was living or dead and if you child was fine. Did she even write to them. send any kind of birthday cards or gifts. NO!!!!! Julia cares about Julia and now that Kyle is in her life and Horatio also she has no other choice but to try change at specially now she has lost her millions which brings me to another point about her and her life style. It want work with a manipulating and selfish personalty that she has right now. I mean years have passed since Pensacola the two people then are not the two people now and you can't go back to you where you left off no matter how much you want to.Horatio has gone through hell and back. Julia has gone through hell and still going through hell now we know she is bi-polar. Is Horatio life style and or position as a Lt. over a Crime lab going to be enough for Julia who has been living the life of luxury and spending money like water. Can she settle down live in modest home and drive a car that is not over 40,000.00. Can she be a Lt. wife and live above reproach and make a home for both kyle and Horatio is that possible for her or will she grow board of Horatio and being a mom. Will she stop flirting with danger. Julia her personalty, her out their character, Oh know she would properly run again.I don't think she is capable, Horatio would spend all his time trying to make her happy and she will bring him down emotionally and socially. I have seen Horatio just in one episode get so angry with her and then switch his emotion to concern it's going to be hard if the writers link that juggling act up He still have to also worry about Kyle also.I think Julia is going to run and break Horatio and Kyle heart. She properly would leave some long letter saying how she loved them both and it's better off if Kyle stays with his father and that she needs time to get her self together. [b]

h-cool wrote: "You know what they say... You lie down with the devil, you wake up in hell." ("Double Cap" #1.19) H-COOL [/color]

kylesangel wrote: One question for me remained, other than Horatio not saying anything when he saw Kyle with a gun:How did he know they were at that house? Because that was not there primary residence. I did not get that? Was that another one of Horatio's safe houses or something. Did he say plane to throw people off and he really sent them to a house? Because if you think about it, that was not their home.

enhinti wrote: Good question I don't think it would cause him to marry Julia (assuming she would marry him). It might cause him to sleep with her again, but it won't cause him to marry her, and he won't be blinded by anything. Remember in "Bombshell" H was concerned that Kyle was going to go back to prison. Not Julia. H believed Kyle, when Kyle said that he didn't kill the neighbor and hadn't driven the car that day. If H had put Julia in the car he would have told Frank to arrest her again, and this time murder would have stuck! I'm thinking of what H said to Suzy after he found out that Madison was Ray's daughter. She said that she would stay clean from drugs, and he said that she now had no choice. H gave Yelina space when he realized she was seeing Stetler. B then when he suspected Stetler of abusing Yelina, H step in and threatened, and then "punished" Stetler. When Ray Jr. called, H came immediately and gave Stetler a rough shoulder as he was walking out. "Keep walking!" H is going to be there for Julia, for Kyle's sake and because he's a protector, but he won't do anything stupid. Julia ultimately doesn't have a say in the matter, but if she was totally against it, she would have let Ron shoot H back in "Ambush." Side note here. H actually has a one up on Julia now. Julia's out burst and back check stuff coupled with her 12 year absence and her affiliation with Ron would make a good case in a custody suit. She was a mess then- she a mess now! I'm no lawyer but I'd think H could have Kyle taken away from Julia. If Julia wants to keep her son, she'll keep herself on track, at least for a while. It will be a tentative peace as the communication barriers will be worse, but peace is peace and Kyle needs it!

kylesangel wrote: Umm? I never thought about it that way, He could be tolerating the situation because it is what Kyle wants? In family law and in custody cases, it comes down to what the child wants (Most but not all cases). But I don't think he is waiting for something bad to happen to Julia so that he can get Kyle, because then if something happens to her, like say death, it would hurt Kyle more than anything else, so he would do something to save her for the sake if his son. Horatio has no reason to have guilt, he loved her, she left him and did not tell him about Kyle. If anything she should be the one that is sorry and guilty, not Horatio. She caused him to miss out on his own sons life.

h-cool wrote: Hey enhinti: In your non-CSI:MI Fan world are you sure your not a "defense lawyer"? 'Cause... Wow, you seem to really like this Julia.

h-cool wrote: Two men now have warned H that if he is not careful, Julia will be his downfall. Ron, would probably also agree.

h-cool wrote: Of course, our H-ero is too cleaver to be taken all the way down.

cle0919 wrote: Julia even said that he still loves her in season 6. When Kyle asked him if he loved her once, he never answered. I think Julia has a lot of explaining to do about why she disappeared a couple months after she and H were together. I think Julia needs to figure out her life path because it seems to coincide a lot with bad people. If she is serious about being with H, then she needs to rid herself of all the negative people in her life and come clean to H about everything she has ever been apart of or done. The road to salvation and love is long and winding, if she is willing to do that then H will be there by her side.

h-cool wrote: Hey enhinti: Your taking H-COOL to seriously. My fellow "board tweakers" will tell you that I can be a jokester and make posts that mean "read between the lines".

h-cool wrote: I think she is sly and conniving, and come-on...

h-cool wrote:

enh - nti wrote: Anyone who constantly shows her advisory her "hand" is either stupid or seriously inhibited.

Sounds "harsh", but I have to disagree.I think Julia is smart and manipulative.

cle0919 wrote: If she is serious about being with H, then she needs to rid herself of all the negative people in her life and come clean to H about everything she has ever been apart of or done.

HDC53 wrote: Kylesangel,I admire your desire to remain open minded and to give Julia a chance. It just bothers me so much that he has done all the giving (at least what we have seen on screen). I have not yet seen any evidence that she is giving anything back to him. One -way relationships are not healthy or do not serve as good role models.

kylesangel wrote: I understand, we as fans do not want to see him get hurt and a lot of his fans think that this will happen when he gets with Julia, bit what if it doesn't what if the opposite happens and Julia is the person that helps him from this dark place.

csimasala5 wrote: Julia and Horatio relationship it stems from a 17 year meeting.I don't know how long Horatio and Julia knew each other then,

csimasala5 wrote: [colo - =brown]Julia was preganant with Kyle when that took place I don't doubt because of the time line. [/color]

csimasala5 wrote: [colo - =brown]Did she leave Kyle with her mother yes. She told Horatio on the day he found out she was Mrs. Winston that she left Kyle with her mother and was planning to go back to get him.[/color]

csimasala5 wrote: [colo - =brown]I could see two years leaving your son, but 17 years and you still thought your son was with your mother. [/color]

csimasala5 wrote: As far as Julia now knowing she was pregnant wasn't she a nurse? [[b]

thenonna wrote: I'm glad H has a son - it puts him in the "human" realm.

thenonna wrote: I hope they don't think the Julia/Horatio opposite attraction is remotely like that of Lady Heather/Grissom -

kylesangel wrote: I mean everyone has reasons why they flee and sometimes those reasons need to be explained, in Julia's case they need to be explained

h-cool wrote: Julia's neckline went from low to really low.

enhinti wrote:

h-cool wrote: Julia's neckline went from low to really low.

Yeah I thought so too. Calleigh and Natalia wore really low neck lines in "Dangerous Son," and they often do in other episodes. Alex would especially wear an incredibly low neck line, and she always was bending over! What's worse, Alex always wore tight fitting pants which outlined her rear-end. My boy friend was totally appalled. What's up with that?

Yes, that subject has been brought up on our board several time with, actually, some of our male posters complaining about it too. One past suggestion was that they dress the female characters like that to keep the theme of Miami being "young and hip" or "hot and humid". Take your pick on the meaning of those last words. My thought... since sponsors are not just concerned about #'s of viewers but the market share of viewers that are 18-49 year olds and that market share is usually focused on the male population VS female population (Nielson Ratings)... you just get more views of the female anatomy. A producer/writer on DVD commentary mentioned this fact and stated that is why they threw in a little gem for us female viewers at the beginning of "Hard Time" #2.04. I suppose they had the same mindset in the recent episode with Eric in the towel. Since these actresses are in good shape, maybe they want to "accentuate the positive". Anyway, with Alexx, she seemed to always be wearing like a workout tank-top and not a sleekly, tight fitting dress. So, that does not appear "vamp" to me. More like... the M.E. was exercising before she got a call-out to the crime scene. Calleigh... probably is being influenced by CA VS. LA (or NC in real-life) in dress. But, Julia... still appears "vamp" to me!H-COOL

enhinti wrote:Nurse or not, a twenty one year old woman (and Julia could not have been older then that)

enhinti wrote: Kyle entered foster care at age 6 and was 16 in "Raising Caine." He clearly remembered his mother and knew her old phone number. To me he had to be at the youngest four when she left him if he was to retain that information. That means that she was gone for ten to twelve years.

BethHK wrote: As a side note: Kyle was born July 6, 1991 at 2:04 (it doesn't say AM or PM) And weighed in at 6lb 7oz.

boo2221 wrote: One question I want to throw out a moment and like you all to seriously think about: Why do we allow a dark and manipulate male character to be turn gray and embrace him, but we can't do the say for the female character? Ooooo.......Gender question for thought and controversy.

h-cool wrote: But, Julia... still appears "vamp" to me![/color]

h-cool wrote: And, sorry to be so frank... but it's the obvious boob exposure, the way she talks and her actions that sets her apart from the others and appears "vamp" to me. I see business casual daily, but it doesn't have the "exposure" that Julia's has.

rocllfan wrote: I just saw an epi where H told Tripp he had a relationship w/Julia 16yrs ago when he was undercover in Narcotics.

csimasala5 wrote: I think the only one who may have dressed conservative was Rebbecca the DA. that is properly because she was in court all the time. Even Marisol dressed vampish in style [/color]

csimasala5 wrote: It's almost as if a spell has been cast over his life that creates the darkness and the gray areas in his life. We know that he struggles with his mother's death and killing his father. That alone will cause a whole lot of darkness and gray areas in your life when you have not made peace with that kind of situation. [/color]

boo2221 wrote: I am now watching the beginning of Rampage on A&E. I never saw it before. I stand corrected about Horatio telling any woman he loves them. I just saw Horatio tell Marisol he loved her! I am stunned. I think there was even a kiss. I was still shocked when he told her he loved her. Oh, and she was cured of cancer suddenly in that episode!I am stunned. I need to think about this a moment.

kylesangel wrote: That is one scene to paint.

cle0919 wrote: Two, if Julia left Kyle with her mother, no mention of her father by the way, then why is there two guardians, the Armstrongs, listed on Kyle's birth cert?

cle0919 wrote: I believe Julia has two true sides to her, one that is pure, wants to change and is willing to love and trust again; and the other is deceitful, manipulative, and gets her way at any cost. Now whether she is aware of these two sides I am not sure. She does however has two strong dual personalities.

boo2221 wrote: Now, if you watch "Raising Caine" again you will notice that he was trying to put her in jail twice because of Kyle. Horatio was conflicted with emotion when he saw her. I felt that the prevailing emotion in the episode was anger because of what has happenned in Kyle's life and feelings he had about her leaving him when he loved her, so he didn't want her anywhere near him. He wanted Kyle all to himself because he felt that he could love and protect him better than she did. This why I think "enhinti" has made some good observations about how Julia has responded to Horatio. I can see how Julia would feel that Horatio was out to get her. These 2 people are running high on alot of emotion based on love, trust, hurt, and anger.

csimasala5 wrote: I think you have two great story started already for fan fic, at specially the one about Horatio and his parents and the abuse.

csimasala5 wrote: This was a great topic when I started it and I did not think it would run like this.

csimasala5 wrote: You know we can come up with all types of images for the story line the writers have build. I do know they are looking at this site also.

boo2221 wrote: Kyle saving Rebecca Niven. Now that would be poetic justice. I would love to see the look on her face if that happenned. She went after Kyle and showed no mercy.

ladyjr8 wrote: Well this got good-Horatio and Julia. I think that with both of them time as made the heart grow fonder over some memories and forgetful of the reality from so long ago. People tend to remember past loves with rose colored glasses when they never see the person again AND have a kid by them. I think Julia forgot Kyle cause she wanted to forget Horatio-she dumped the boy off and didn't worry about him again. She's had money for awhile why didn't she look for Horatio or Kyle? Yeah her illness or her selfishness would explain that away. As for a s/l possibility-I would think if Ron wanted to truly devastate BOTH H and Julia he'd "fake" Kyle's death-like have the boy's car blow up and everybody thinks the kid is inside. Maybe Ron would plant some of Kyle's hair or skin for DNA proof. And while H and Julia are freaking out-a sedated Kyle is found somewhere in a locked abandoned warehouse or something. I know kidnapping would be a repeat but Ron's MO is grabbing and taping someone up-maybe he'd do that to Kyle. Then H and Julia would either rip each other up with the blame game or they'd work together to find out what truly happened. I don't think Horatio would ever actually marry Julia-and even if he started sleeping with her again that would affect his son. Let the boy hope for his parents to get together again and then it won't happen. I would love now that Julia's kinda broke if H mentions that Kyle spends more time at his place. I don't understand why they can't incorporate Kyle's life into H's more like with a mentor/aide program. Or maybe Kyle gets a job there?

boo2221 wrote: Rebecca fights for her own personal glory and win. I have always felt that Horatio was a prize for her to win and then she lost her prize. She is ticked she lost her prize and he embarrassed her in the process.

csimasala5 wrote: I have yet to hear Julia admit to anyone that she still loves Horatio.

csimasala5 wrote: It was always her using the fact that Horatio loved her. …She would ask him only when she was trying to be manipulative and get her way and not be sincere at all.

csimasala5 wrote: …if two people are in love not matter what the situation they would find a way to be together and or stay together. It's still not clear who left who.

csimasala5 wrote: Horatio don't strike me as the type to just walk away from someone he loves. Julia on the other hand will walk way and never look back.

csimasala5 wrote: Ron wanted to know where her head was because if she even let it come out her mouth he would have killed her. That was a fear also of her's yet she stayed with him and married him.

csimasala5 wrote: Now if …I knew that the man I loved was back and he could help me get away from that evil man. I would have ran so far into Horatio arms that Ron would never ever get me to come back.

csimasala5 wrote: the very last words my baby father said was sweet heart …Horatio was reaching out to her then. If she loved him she would have found away to get away from Ron.

csimasala5 wrote: That to me is not the rationale thought process of a Women in love and or distrusting.

csimasala5 wrote: Now it goes to show you how out touch Julia was with knowing what type of man Horatio was, all those years ago.

boo2221 wrote: Well, I think they are neat idea.

kylesangel wrote: I don't think Kyle got in contact with Julia when he was in prison, because Julia asked Horatio in raising Caine, where Kyle was. He may have been dialing those numbers, but he did not get in contact with her. And plus Kyle said to Horatio,"I want to find her." He never got in contact with Julia.

kylesangel wrote: Though it would be nice for Kyle to date, I think he should get to know dad first. I wonder what Horatio and Julia would say.

h-sunglasses wrote: Same as H-Cool, i don't like her, nor trust her

h-sunglasses wrote: yeah. but H still believes that inside her there is someone good.

enhinti wrote: Yes. There is incredible chemistry between H and Yelina. But Yelina had so many chances and blew them all. When Yelina first thought that her husband was dead even after three years she couldn't accept H. She was emotionally closed to H, causing him to always think of her as his brother's wife. When she saw Suzy she assumed logically that Madison was H's daughter, but after all H did for her, she acted as if H had hidden the truth from her for all those years! She had no reason to beleive the H had know about Madison before. She was so judgmental. Yelina is smart and understanding and yet she totally misjudges H! Yelina had her chance to be with H, but rejected him. Now that H has moved on, she should to.

kylesangel wrote: I really don't want them to date I just don't.

boo2221 wrote: He has been reenergized since he has become a full fledge family man.

h-cool wrote: WOW... Have some of you forgotten that Julia was behind the murder of 2 people and has committed fraud and embezzlement for years. Who cares that she was the mother of Kyle. That does not make her a equal or great person. Although, she seems to have a bipolar personality, I think deep down she is a scheming and evil woman.For H, a man who has chased murderers and criminals most his life to put them behind bars and to seek justice for victims and the innocent and who "never gives up" on this goal... this would be a big mistake by the writers and TPTB. I read stuff too on the Net about H wanting Julia to redeem herself in Season 7, but to form a romance between these two would be contradictory to the H-character. CSI:Miami was not in the Top-10 shows this past week and CSI:NY actually surpassed CSI:Miami in ratings. This use to not be the case. I think if the writers or TPTB pursue a romance between these two and continue with the gray and darker tone... ratings are going to continue to slide.Aka: "Board Tweaker", Igo4H and new2csi "KEEP ME POSTED" - Horatio Caine" 4y-1=3b[Nh] is a great actor! Gig'em H!

cle0919 wrote: I wonder if a way to a writer's heart is through the stomach? Maybe all of us should flood the writers with sweet goodies like cake, pastries and such. Perhaps have little frosting messages on each item giving subtle hints?

ahrean wrote: I'll bake cookies and all that as long as it doesnt' involve Julia getting together with H.

ahrean wrote: If H and Julia are brought together romantically it would kill the show for me. Now I am biased because personally I'm not a fan of Berkeley's (scarred by Showgirls I guess) but I also adore this show and like you said, it would just be WAY out of character for H to form another romantic relationship with Julia........

kylesangel wrote: And I would disagree Elizabeth Berkeley is stunning. Everything about her is real, from her hair to everything else. Her eyes are like that because she has this rare condition that caused her eyes to change different colors. They couldn't have picked a better person to play Kyle's mother. I think Evan in a weird way, looks like a mixture of David and Elizabeth.

HDC53 wrote: When Julia was helping Kyle with his tie on the day of his trial, she stepped back to look at Kyle in appraisal and she said, "You are so handsome, like your father." Horatio overheard the comment, but I don't believe she knew his was standing nearby when she said it. That line suggests to me that she sees something of Horatio in Kyle and that contributes to her drive to have her son, beyond the power struggle issue. It also re-inforces for me that despite the tough issues between Horatio and Julia, there is evidence to suggest that their affair had been intense and passionate.

HDC53 wrote: It also re-inforces for me that despite the tough issues between Horatio and Julia, there is evidence to suggest that their affair had been intense and passionate. I still don't believe Julia is worth the powder to blow her to Hell, but I am one of the first people to admit the influence of sexual passion in a romance and its power to form a primal bond, regardless of how "wise" or "logical" it is. Whether I like it not, Kyle is the product of their passion for each other.

cle0919 wrote: ...if Julia left Kyle with her mother, no mention of her father by the way, then why is there two guardians, the Armstrongs, listed on Kyle's birth cert [foster record]? And at that time, if Armstrong was her mother and father's last name, then why did H only know her as Julia Eberly? This could reveal that she has lied to him from the very beginning and is still lying to him. Three, I do not think Julia left Kyle left him with her mother. I think CPS took Kyle away from her and that is why she never contacted her mother or Kyle.

Julia is still weaving lies of deception and I believe she is still hiding a few major skeletons in her closet that when they are revealed, it is going to blow everyone away.

boo2221 wrote: I don't think mentaltelepthy will work, but at this point I am desperate and will try anything.

BethHK wrote: For instance, in "Ambush" when she came to tell Horatio that he was going to be extradited, she lied and told him that it had nothing to do with Ron, while they had just shown in the previous scene that she was doing it because of Ron. Further more, she even admitted to lying in "Bombshell" when she said "I lie to you, John, I do. But then again, you lie to me too, don't you John Walden?" I think practically everything she says is a lie. Why should I believe anything she says when she's already proven herself untrustworthy? I think that scene in "Bombshell" where she is having her breakdown was probably the most honest she has ever been.

kylesangel wrote: But is she somewhat guilty, yes.

boo2221 wrote: Based on how we all each feel about the character of Julia, we will read our own interruptation into the character's actions and gestures. Some will see all bad, some will see the gray. I see the gray with hopes that the writers will give me a good plausable story that Berkley and Caruso will portray with honest emotion and intelligance. Throw in Ellingson's part and we have a good solid story with mystery, intrigue, and family dynamics.

syncgal168 wrote: H and Julia are really not the right people for each other. ...H can do so much better than her!!!!

h-cool wrote: OK Energizer Bunny... I found an ole' Horatio and Yelina thread on like page 19 of the General Comments Section and "resurrected" it. I'm glad you suggested we discuss the "YeaH" subject on another thread besides this "H and Evil Julia" thread because I think I've started a Novel on that ole' thread!See Ya there! H-COOL [/color]

boo2221 wrote: The show is up to Episode 16 and that takes them to mid-February. Kyle is not in the January ones or the 2 for February.

HDC53 wrote: Your comments struck a cord with me. Horatio's relationships with women 20 years younger are an insult both to the character of Lt. Horatio Caine and to the core of female fans over 40 years old. There are many beautiful, fit and sexy actresses (characters) over 40 who could offer a deep, but electrifying connection with Horatio. I especially feel annoyed about this because the onscreen chemistry between Horatio and younger women, such as Julia and Marisol is simply not there and their acting does not sell me that either woman has any real passion or love for the man. No TV fan adores our handsome David (Horatio) more than I do, but from recent episodes it is clear that he has aged. To continue to pair him with young girls will become so implausible, it will look laughable.

h-cool wrote: All I can say on that... those Texas friends must have been from Austin, TX. Most Texans outside of Austin (I'm one of them and mainly grew up most my life in TX) think Austinites are definitely a little "hinky".

h-cool wrote: Excuse me while I go swallow another Pepto-Bismol!!!

h-cool wrote: For a moment, I had a thought that when Julia tried to get info from P.I. Yelina and did not get it, that maybe she went to another P.I., Rossi.

h-cool wrote: Then, that is when Rossi dug up dirt on H in Rio and created that disk.

h-cool wrote: Then knowing the scumbag that Rossi is he then investigated his own client, Julia Winston, and then found out about all the real estate and charity fraud questions and possible illegal dealings of Ron and Julia. Remember what Rossi told H, that he had eyes and ears everywhere?

h-cool wrote: Julia stated money buys a lot of information in Rio.

h-cool wrote: Or what if Rossi was the P.I. hired by Bill Winston's attorney?.

h-cool wrote: Either way, H now has that disk. I would love to know what was on that disk.

h-cool wrote: Also, who do you think tipped Julia off that Yelina was looking into her background?

h-cool wrote: Also, why did Ron not reconnect with Yelina to deliver those fused-alloy rounds? Was he tipped off about her later somehow?

h-cool wrote: Remember the unshown issue about Ron being beat up by supposively gang members?

I wrote:Julia was 29 when she gave birth to Kyle. I know because I've studied Kyle's birth certificate on "Raising Caine" and "Dangerous Son." (I know, I'm pathetic, but I like to know as many facts as I can, so that I can better understand what is going on.) And it said she was born on October 21, 1962.Also, I learned by googling his biography (look at Wikipedia), Horatio was born April 7, 1960, which would have made him 31 when Kyle was born.As a side note: Kyle was born July 6, 1991 at 2:04 (it doesn't say AM or PM) And weighed in at 6lb 7oz.

Enhinti wrote:Thanks, BethHKAs for Julia's age, she simply doesn't look like she's over forty, so I won't believe she is....Whoever was in charge of the props (the actual papers) didn't put the kind of thought into it that they should have for a consistent story....In "Dangerous Son" when H asks Kyle when he was born, Kyle replies "July 21st 1991." I believe this to be his birth date.In season 1, H tells Calleigh that he is 45. I don't know where 1960 came up, but H has to be 51 right now. (Older then my mother!)I'll take H's word over a prop paper that no one expected the audience to read.

BethHK wrote: I wrote this all the way back on page 15 of this thread, but since this topic has come up again and people seem to have forgotten what I said, I thought I would remind everyone.

BethHK wrote: Anyway, Kyles' birth certificate in both "Dangerous Son" and "Raising Caine" said that Julia was born October 21, 1962.

BethHK wrote: Also, I would have believed you about Horatio's birth date, but since you didn't tell me where you got that information, I couldn't verify it. I tried, but I don't really want to watch every episode again just to find that, especially since I don't own those episodes, I have to try and find them online.

BethHK wrote: Again, I am really sorry to be a jerk about this, but when people blatantly ignore me, and disregard what I say, especially when I know I'm right, I get a little grumpy.

boo2221 wrote: enhinti- How about "Holia"?

boo2221 wrote: No, I was writing "Holia" not "Hulia". The pronunciation is different.

boo2221 wrote: …I think this is one of the reasons why I like the reason of the introduction of character of Julia. She is not this perfect woman that we all think that Horatio should have.

boo2221 wrote: Because of the tragedy of his life the character of Horatio seemed to be drawn to the pure woman in order to find some kind of goodness, happiness, and redemption.

boo2221 wrote: Than along comes the character of Julia who storms on the scene as the anti-woman who enters his life.

boo2221 wrote: I was one of the first people to express myself on how theis wicked woman needed to br removed from Horatio and Kyle's lives at the end of the first episode because she didn't fit into our ideals or standards for our character and his son.

boo2221 wrote: When the writers came back from the strike, I watched carefully what they did with the character of Julia and saw the potential they were creating for this new type of woman in his life. She was not all good and she was not all bad. She was full of the complexity and demons as the character of Horatio. (Also we only have had 6 episode with her and with each episode the character is developing.) I personally liked what I was seeing.

boo2221 wrote: Another key thing that the writers gave us was that we are given no indication that she ever interferred with the father-son relationship. I was given the impression that she respected that.…It was key for me to see Julia step and back to give Horatio a private time to talk to his son about what he was going to do to protect him and his mother. The second key scene was when was Kyle walked away upset that he was thought he would not see his father again and she has a concerned looked on her face and arm around her son as any mother would ready to explain the situation to her son. The third key scene is when we see them in the room together and he asked his mother where she is going that they would be "meeting dad in an hour". He was very comfortable and understandin