dbvand wrote: I think they need to change the format to include waaaay more individual immunities. I'm sick of seeing a bunch of losers banding together to vote out the strong players - namely Marcus and now Charlie.Who would want to watch the superbowl if two teams with losing records were playing because they voted out the good teams that they viewed as a threat.Kenny and Chrystal aren't bad people but even as they lost challenge after challenge, they kept voting out the strong members of their tribe (like Ace). They're losers not only for losing but also for continuing to vote out the strong members of their own tribe which further perpetuated the losing.Then they teamed up with Susie, another total loser, to vote out Marcus, arguably the strongest player in the challenges. That totally ruined the show for me. It's like a bunch of 2-7 football teams voting out a 9-0 team.The tribe changing twist last week also ruined the show. Marcus had also done an excellent job of building alliances but then he got stuck with the losers. The game is supposed to be about skill, not luck when pulling numbers out of a bag. They totally negated Marcus' considerable skill and effectively eliminated him with the number he pulled out of the bag. I don't care to watch that. I want to see people win or lose based on their skill.They need to have individual immunities for at least half of the members of whichever tribe is going to council - 8 tribe members = 4 individual immunities. The immunity challenges should be a mixture of physical and mental competitions since different people possess different types of skills.I've been a Survivor fan since season 1 but I've quit watching in the middle of several seasons because of this same phenomenon and I'm through with this season as well. I also used to watch Big Brother but have quit watching in the middle of the past 2 seasons for the exact same reason.Let's see a show where the winners make it to the end and have a real showdown like the superbowl!

dbvand wrote: I think they need to change the format to include waaaay more individual immunities. I'm sick of seeing a bunch of losers banding together to vote out the strong players - namely Marcus and now Charlie.Who would want to watch the superbowl if two teams with losing records were playing because they voted out the good teams that they viewed as a threat.Kenny and Chrystal aren't bad people but even as they lost challenge after challenge, they kept voting out the strong members of their tribe (like Ace). They're losers not only for losing but also for continuing to vote out the strong members of their own tribe which further perpetuated the losing.Then they teamed up with Susie, another total loser, to vote out Marcus, arguably the strongest player in the challenges. That totally ruined the show for me. It's like a bunch of 2-7 football teams voting out a 9-0 team.The tribe changing twist last week also ruined the show. Marcus had also done an excellent job of building alliances but then he got stuck with the losers. The game is supposed to be about skill, not luck when pulling numbers out of a bag. They totally negated Marcus' considerable skill and effectively eliminated him with the number he pulled out of the bag. I don't care to watch that. I want to see people win or lose based on their skill.They need to have individual immunities for at least half of the members of whichever tribe is going to council - 8 tribe members = 4 individual immunities. The immunity challenges should be a mixture of physical and mental competitions since different people possess different types of skills.I've been a Survivor fan since season 1 but I've quit watching in the middle of several seasons because of this same phenomenon and I'm through with this season as well. I also used to watch Big Brother but have quit watching in the middle of the past 2 seasons for the exact same reason.Let's see a show where the winners make it to the end and have a real showdown like the superbowl!

Catani1234 wrote: It's funny how people here have this perennial tension to convey the "Fang" tribe as the 'losers'. The game is definitely not all about physical strength; rather, it mostly comes down to the social and mental aspect of the game. The 'strong' players are being voted out solely based on what they have done wrong, and Ace and Marcus are perfect examples of this.The producers of Survivor have little to do with this. The multiple switch-ups were not rigged in the fact that it was up to fate or choice. Kenny and Crystal are well more deserving of winning than Marcus and Charlie based on their raw ability to manipulate, socialize, and persuade. For the past couple of episodes, they have been able to do this--thus, why they are more deserving. This week, both the "winners" and "losers" had a shot at persuading Sugar to vote on their behalf, but based on the fact that Kenny, your so called 'loser' is better at the social aspect, they came out as the "winners".The physical games are there to keep one or a group in the game.. and that only. It does NOT define the whole game or whom is more deserving as Kenny well conveyed in today's episode. How are the Kota II "winners"? They had more physical players.. and that is all. The social aspect of the game is there to eliminate one of the players.. and that is it.Thus, your argument is flawed. Kenny and Crystal are the better players in this game based on the fundamental fact that they have been the major contributors to voting out... BASED ON THEIR STRATEGY.Remember, "Outwit, Outlast, and Outplay".

because I think she actually liked Charlie's team better than Kenny's

catani1234 wrote:

dbvand wrote: I think they need to change the format to include waaaay more individual immunities. I'm sick of seeing a bunch of losers banding together to vote out the strong players - namely Marcus and now Charlie.Who would want to watch the superbowl if two teams with losing records were playing because they voted out the good teams that they viewed as a threat.Kenny and Chrystal aren't bad people but even as they lost challenge after challenge, they kept voting out the strong members of their tribe (like Ace). They're losers not only for losing but also for continuing to vote out the strong members of their own tribe which further perpetuated the losing.Then they teamed up with Susie, another total loser, to vote out Marcus, arguably the strongest player in the challenges. That totally ruined the show for me. It's like a bunch of 2-7 football teams voting out a 9-0 team.Well it's not to difficult to keep your social game going when you have NEVER been separated. Crystal and Ken have never been separated while evryone else has. The tribe changing twist last week also ruined the show. Marcus had also done an excellent job of building alliances but then he got stuck with the losers. The game is supposed to be about skill, not luck when pulling numbers out of a bag. They totally negated Marcus' considerable skill and effectively eliminated him with the number he pulled out of the bag. I don't care to watch that. I want to see people win or lose based on their skill.They need to have individual immunities for at least half of the members of whichever tribe is going to council - 8 tribe members = 4 individual immunities. The immunity challenges should be a mixture of physical and mental competitions since different people possess different types of skills.I've been a Survivor fan since season 1 but I've quit watching in the middle of several seasons because of this same phenomenon and I'm through with this season as well. I also used to watch Big Brother but have quit watching in the middle of the past 2 seasons for the exact same reason.Let's see a show where the winners make it to the end and have a real showdown like the superbowl!

It's funny how people here have this perennial tension to convey the "Fang" tribe as the 'losers'. The game is definitely not all about physical strength; rather, it mostly comes down to the social and mental aspect of the game. The 'strong' players are being voted out solely based on what they have done wrong, and Ace and Marcus are perfect examples of this.The producers of Survivor have little to do with this. The multiple switch-ups were not rigged in the fact that it was up to fate or choice. Kenny and Crystal are well more deserving of winning than Marcus and Charlie based on their raw ability to manipulate, socialize, and persuade. For the past couple of episodes, they have been able to do this--thus, why they are more deserving. This week, both the "winners" and "losers" had a shot at persuading Sugar to vote on their behalf, but based on the fact that Kenny, your so called 'loser' is better at the social aspect, they came out as the "winners".The physical games are there to keep one or a group in the game.. and that only. It does NOT define the whole game or whom is more deserving as Kenny well conveyed in today's episode. How are the Kota II "winners"? They had more physical players.. and that is all. The social aspect of the game is there to eliminate one of the players.. and that is it.Thus, your argument is flawed. Kenny and Crystal are the better players in this game based on the fundamental fact that they have been the major contributors to voting out... BASED ON THEIR STRATEGY.Remember, "Outwit, Outlast, and Outplay".

catani1234 wrote: It's funny how people here have this perennial tension to convey the "Fang" tribe as the 'losers'. The game is definitely not all about physical strength; rather, it mostly comes down to the social and mental aspect of the game. The 'strong' players are being voted out solely based on what they have done wrong, and Ace and Marcus are perfect examples of this.

dbvand wrote:

catani1234 wrote: It's funny how people here have this perennial tension to convey the "Fang" tribe as the 'losers'. The game is definitely not all about physical strength; rather, it mostly comes down to the social and mental aspect of the game. The 'strong' players are being voted out solely based on what they have done wrong, and Ace and Marcus are perfect examples of this.

I didn't say it was all about physical strength. I said that the challenges should include both mental and physical challenges. I also said that Marcus had done a great job of building alliances within his own tribe which is the social aspect. They're all three important.The reorganization of the tribe members last week that took Marcus away from his tribe, effectively took the alliance building aspect out of the game and based the outcome on luck.You're right about the slogan "Outwit, Outlast, and Outplay". The outcome should be based on a combination of physical, mental and social strength. Kenny and Crystal were only able to vote Marcus out because of the number he pulled out of a bag. What does that have to do with skill? If that hadn't happened they wouldn't have been able to vote Charlie out this week either.

dbvand wrote: I think they need to change the format to include waaaay more individual immunities. I'm sick of seeing a bunch of losers banding together to vote out the strong players - namely Marcus and now Charlie.Who would want to watch the superbowl if two teams with losing records were playing because they voted out the good teams that they viewed as a threat.Kenny and Chrystal aren't bad people but even as they lost challenge after challenge, they kept voting out the strong members of their tribe (like Ace). They're losers not only for losing but also for continuing to vote out the strong members of their own tribe which further perpetuated the losing.Then they teamed up with Susie, another total loser, to vote out Marcus, arguably the strongest player in the challenges. That totally ruined the show for me. It's like a bunch of 2-7 football teams voting out a 9-0 team.It would've been stupid, not to get rid of Marcus the first chance possible, he had to go.The tribe changing twist last week also ruined the show. Marcus had also done an excellent job of building alliances but then he got stuck with the losers. The game is supposed to be about skill, not luck when pulling numbers out of a bag. They totally negated Marcus' considerable skill and effectively eliminated him with the number he pulled out of the bag. I don't care to watch that. I want to see people win or lose based on their skill.They need to have individual immunities for at least half of the members of whichever tribe is going to council - 8 tribe members = 4 individual immunities. The immunity challenges should be a mixture of physical and mental competitions since different people possess different types of skills.I've been a Survivor fan since season 1 but I've quit watching in the middle of several seasons because of this same phenomenon and I'm through with this season as well. I also used to watch Big Brother but have quit watching in the middle of the past 2 seasons for the exact same reason.Let's see a show where the winners make it to the end and have a real showdown like the superbowl!

dbvand wrote: I think they need to change the format to include waaaay more individual immunities. I'm sick of seeing a bunch of losers banding together to vote out the strong players - namely Marcus and now Charlie.Who would want to watch the superbowl if two teams with losing records were playing because they voted out the good teams that they viewed as a threat.Kenny and Chrystal aren't bad people but even as they lost challenge after challenge, they kept voting out the strong members of their tribe (like Ace). They're losers not only for losing but also for continuing to vote out the strong members of their own tribe which further perpetuated the losing.Then they teamed up with Susie, another total loser, to vote out Marcus, arguably the strongest player in the challenges. That totally ruined the show for me. It's like a bunch of 2-7 football teams voting out a 9-0 team.The tribe changing twist last week also ruined the show. Marcus had also done an excellent job of building alliances but then he got stuck with the losers. The game is supposed to be about skill, not luck when pulling numbers out of a bag. They totally negated Marcus' considerable skill and effectively eliminated him with the number he pulled out of the bag. I don't care to watch that. I want to see people win or lose based on their skill.They need to have individual immunities for at least half of the members of whichever tribe is going to council - 8 tribe members = 4 individual immunities. The immunity challenges should be a mixture of physical and mental competitions since different people possess different types of skills.I've been a Survivor fan since season 1 but I've quit watching in the middle of several seasons because of this same phenomenon and I'm through with this season as well. I also used to watch Big Brother but have quit watching in the middle of the past 2 seasons for the exact same reason.Let's see a show where the winners make it to the end and have a real showdown like the superbowl!

browniemr17 wrote: I don't believe that Sugar voted w/ Kenny's team because of Kenny's "good" social game. I think she had enough brains to realize that her best shot at winning this whole game was to go with Kenny's team, because they are a weaker team. She knows she has a better shot of getting herself to the top 3, at least, by (1st) killing off Charlie's team, (2nd) winning an individual immunity (because Kenny's team is mentally, socially, & physically weaker than Charlie's team, she would have a better chance at this) & (3rd) eventually using the idol she already has. However, if she she went with Charlie's team then she would be at the bottom, because I am sure she didn't forget how tight, smart, & physically strong his team was, & she would have a less likely chance at winning individual immunity after Kenny's team was voted off, if she went that way. Also, because Bob went to Exile, she may be worried that he would have realized that she had the idol, and she would have a whole knew target on her back if she went with Charlie's team, but Kenny's team already knows about it, and therefore she doesn't have to hide it from them and worry as much at the moment about them trying to "flush" it out, like Charlie's team did with Dan (who they thought may have the idol, although they voted for him for other reasons as well).Sugar's reason's for going with Kenny's team were probably similar to Suzie's reason's for switching sides and voting out Marcus. In the end they are taking out the stronger players in the game to benefit no one but themselves. And I don't like it. Although everyone has a shot at winning & a chance to do what they can to win, as a viewer I would rather see someone with good social, physical, & intellectual skills, and with a strong tight alliance from the beginning, win this game than the people who get a free ride on the coat-tails of those power players. Those free-loaders get carried so far in this game by the power players only to stab them in the back when it suits them best, all because the game had a stupid twist that allowed them to be cut-throat, mainly because of an off-set in numbers. I knew when Sugar started getting all emotional and teary-eyed when they were voting at tribal council that she had voted Charlie, because I think she actually liked Charlie's team better than Kenny's, but knew she didn't have a good chance at winning the game, if she had stayed with Charlie's team, which is too bad, but is understandable.

boriss70 wrote: I really don't like the players now. I can't stand Ken,Crystal and Susie. I hate it when all that's left are the lazy and whiney people. I won't be paying much attention anymore to the show thisseason. All of the interesting people are gone. I really didn't like the twist last week!

Locotje wrote: My suggestion:no more tribe A and B one gaint tribe from the start and individual immunity from the start but the person who wins immunity can protect 6 members(at the beginning of the season and becomming less and less as the season gets further,so 6 the first two TC 5 the next two and so on) of the tribe with extended immunity.That way the weak players actually need at least one fysical strong player

Roddly wrote: Topic creator obviously doesn't understand the game and is just butt-hurt his preferred people proved themselves weaker players. He apparently thinks the game is just about reward/immunity challenges and that the only people who should win the game or deserve to be in the game are athletes. Perhaps we should get rid of all diversity from future seasons and just have nothing but a bunch of boring male 20-somethings in perfect health. Anyone who thinks it's about "making your team stronger" so you win the next basket of fruit, but then just get yourself or allies booted the next round, is incredibly asinine.

dbvand wrote: I think they need to change the format to include waaaay more individual immunities. I'm sick of seeing a bunch of losers banding together to vote out the strong players - namely Marcus and now Charlie.Who would want to watch the superbowl if two teams with losing records were playing because they voted out the good teams that they viewed as a threat.Kenny and Chrystal aren't bad people but even as they lost challenge after challenge, they kept voting out the strong members of their tribe (like Ace). They're losers not only for losing but also for continuing to vote out the strong members of their own tribe which further perpetuated the losing.Then they teamed up with Susie, another total loser, to vote out Marcus, arguably the strongest player in the challenges. That totally ruined the show for me. It's like a bunch of 2-7 football teams voting out a 9-0 team.The tribe changing twist last week also ruined the show. Marcus had also done an excellent job of building alliances but then he got stuck with the losers. The game is supposed to be about skill, not luck when pulling numbers out of a bag. They totally negated Marcus' considerable skill and effectively eliminated him with the number he pulled out of the bag. I don't care to watch that. I want to see people win or lose based on their skill.They need to have individual immunities for at least half of the members of whichever tribe is going to council - 8 tribe members = 4 individual immunities. The immunity challenges should be a mixture of physical and mental competitions since different people possess different types of skills.I've been a Survivor fan since season 1 but I've quit watching in the middle of several seasons because of this same phenomenon and I'm through with this season as well. I also used to watch Big Brother but have quit watching in the middle of the past 2 seasons for the exact same reason.Let's see a show where the winners make it to the end and have a real showdown like the superbowl!

madbird11 wrote: That's a God-awful idea.First, your saying you enjoy complete domination over making the game intresting? That's like saying Texas Tech should forfit their win against TExas because they weren't supposed to win.

dbvand wrote: I think they need to change the format to include waaaay more individual immunities. I'm sick of seeing a bunch of losers banding together to vote out the strong players - namely Marcus and now Charlie.Who would want to watch the superbowl if two teams with losing records were playing because they voted out the good teams that they viewed as a threat.Kenny and Chrystal aren't bad people but even as they lost challenge after challenge, they kept voting out the strong members of their tribe (like Ace). They're losers not only for losing but also for continuing to vote out the strong members of their own tribe which further perpetuated the losing.Then they teamed up with Susie, another total loser, to vote out Marcus, arguably the strongest player in the challenges. That totally ruined the show for me. It's like a bunch of 2-7 football teams voting out a 9-0 team.The tribe changing twist last week also ruined the show. Marcus had also done an excellent job of building alliances but then he got stuck with the losers. The game is supposed to be about skill, not luck when pulling numbers out of a bag. They totally negated Marcus' considerable skill and effectively eliminated him with the number he pulled out of the bag. I don't care to watch that. I want to see people win or lose based on their skill.They need to have individual immunities for at least half of the members of whichever tribe is going to council - 8 tribe members = 4 individual immunities. The immunity challenges should be a mixture of physical and mental competitions since different people possess different types of skills.I've been a Survivor fan since season 1 but I've quit watching in the middle of several seasons because of this same phenomenon and I'm through with this season as well. I also used to watch Big Brother but have quit watching in the middle of the past 2 seasons for the exact same reason.Let's see a show where the winners make it to the end and have a real showdown like the superbowl!

dbvand wrote:

madbird11 wrote: That's a God-awful idea.First, your saying you enjoy complete domination over making the game intresting? That's like saying Texas Tech should forfit their win against TExas because they weren't supposed to win.

That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying just the opposite. Tech deserved to win because they were the better team.But what if Tech had to draw numbers out of a bag and as a result had to give up their quarterback and star receiver just before the game and then had lost. That would be wrong and that's what happened to Marcus.I'm saying the better players deserve to stay just like the better teams deserve to win.

princesseb wrote: All the switching makes it hard to follow, too. We need some constancy to get to know the players. When we don't know them, we can't form loyalty to specific players, or come to care about them. I haven't been able to "like" anyone this season. Not only that, but Mattie, Marcus and Charlie all look somewhat alike. Most of the players are unattractive as well. Even Sugar, a self-professed poster child, isn't that great looking.Bring back the beauties, staff! I miss Ozzy!

tractainic wrote: Hmmm... How about a season where it is one tribe from day one, but instead of playing for tribal immunity you divide into teams for each challenge, and the people on the winning team get immunity, but everyone goes to tribal, that could mix things up.

dbvand wrote: I think they need to change the format to include waaaay more individual immunities. I'm sick of seeing a bunch of losers banding together to vote out the strong players - namely Marcus and now Charlie.Who would want to watch the superbowl if two teams with losing records were playing because they voted out the good teams that they viewed as a threat.Kenny and Chrystal aren't bad people but even as they lost challenge after challenge, they kept voting out the strong members of their tribe (like Ace). They're losers not only for losing but also for continuing to vote out the strong members of their own tribe which further perpetuated the losing.Then they teamed up with Susie, another total loser, to vote out Marcus, arguably the strongest player in the challenges. That totally ruined the show for me. It's like a bunch of 2-7 football teams voting out a 9-0 team.The tribe changing twist last week also ruined the show. Marcus had also done an excellent job of building alliances but then he got stuck with the losers. The game is supposed to be about skill, not luck when pulling numbers out of a bag. They totally negated Marcus' considerable skill and effectively eliminated him with the number he pulled out of the bag. I don't care to watch that. I want to see people win or lose based on their skill.They need to have individual immunities for at least half of the members of whichever tribe is going to council - 8 tribe members = 4 individual immunities. The immunity challenges should be a mixture of physical and mental competitions since different people possess different types of skills.I've been a Survivor fan since season 1 but I've quit watching in the middle of several seasons because of this same phenomenon and I'm through with this season as well. I also used to watch Big Brother but have quit watching in the middle of the past 2 seasons for the exact same reason.Let's see a show where the winners make it to the end and have a real showdown like the superbowl!

ferris1304 wrote:

dbvand wrote: I think they need to change the format to include waaaay more individual immunities. I'm sick of seeing a bunch of losers banding together to vote out the strong players - namely Marcus and now Charlie.Who would want to watch the superbowl if two teams with losing records were playing because they voted out the good teams that they viewed as a threat.Kenny and Chrystal aren't bad people but even as they lost challenge after challenge, they kept voting out the strong members of their tribe (like Ace). They're losers not only for losing but also for continuing to vote out the strong members of their own tribe which further perpetuated the losing.Then they teamed up with Susie, another total loser, to vote out Marcus, arguably the strongest player in the challenges. That totally ruined the show for me. It's like a bunch of 2-7 football teams voting out a 9-0 team.The tribe changing twist last week also ruined the show. Marcus had also done an excellent job of building alliances but then he got stuck with the losers. The game is supposed to be about skill, not luck when pulling numbers out of a bag. They totally negated Marcus' considerable skill and effectively eliminated him with the number he pulled out of the bag. I don't care to watch that. I want to see people win or lose based on their skill.They need to have individual immunities for at least half of the members of whichever tribe is going to council - 8 tribe members = 4 individual immunities. The immunity challenges should be a mixture of physical and mental competitions since different people possess different types of skills.I've been a Survivor fan since season 1 but I've quit watching in the middle of several seasons because of this same phenomenon and I'm through with this season as well. I also used to watch Big Brother but have quit watching in the middle of the past 2 seasons for the exact same reason.Let's see a show where the winners make it to the end and have a real showdown like the superbowl!

I couldn't agree more. I too am done this season. The thing in my mind is would the loser tribe have survived if they had not changed the tribes yet again .. It seems awfully manipulated. There have been seasons in the past where they let the stronger tribe simply vots off the weaker ones. The show is fixed...I'm more conrvinced evey year

princesseb wrote:

ferris1304 wrote: [qu - te=dbvand]I think they need to change the format to include waaaay more individual immunities. I'm sick of seeing a bunch of losers banding together to vote out the strong players - namely Marcus and now Charlie.Who would want to watch the superbowl if two teams with losing records were playing because they voted out the good teams that they viewed as a threat.Kenny and Chrystal aren't bad people but even as they lost challenge after challenge, they kept voting out the strong members of their tribe (like Ace). They're losers not only for losing but also for continuing to vote out the strong members of their own tribe which further perpetuated the losing.Then they teamed up with Susie, another total loser, to vote out Marcus, arguably the strongest player in the challenges. That totally ruined the show for me. It's like a bunch of 2-7 football teams voting out a 9-0 team.The tribe changing twist last week also ruined the show. Marcus had also done an excellent job of building alliances but then he got stuck with the losers. The game is supposed to be about skill, not luck when pulling numbers out of a bag. They totally negated Marcus' considerable skill and effectively eliminated him with the number he pulled out of the bag. I don't care to watch that. I want to see people win or lose based on their skill.They need to have individual immunities for at least half of the members of whichever tribe is going to council - 8 tribe members = 4 individual immunities. The immunity challenges should be a mixture of physical and mental competitions since different people possess different types of skills.I've been a Survivor fan since season 1 but I've quit watching in the middle of several seasons because of this same phenomenon and I'm through with this season as well. I also used to watch Big Brother but have quit watching in the middle of the past 2 seasons for the exact same reason.Let's see a show where the winners make it to the end and have a real showdown like the superbowl!

I couldn't agree more. I too am done this season. The thing in my mind is would the loser tribe have survived if they had not changed the tribes yet again .. It seems awfully manipulated. There have been seasons in the past where they let the stronger tribe simply vots off the weaker ones. The show is fixed...I'm more conrvinced evey year

hinderedsoul wrote: MTV has a show called "The Challenge" and this last season they did it more like a Survivor type thing. None of them knew beforehand that they were going to be taken to a desert island and not have much to eat except for rice. Obviously, MTV and CBS are very different types of stations, but the one thing I thought made it more interesting to watch was how they voted people off the show. Instead of doing it secretly, like they do Survivor, the two people who were on the block stood there while each of the others said out loud who they were voting against and why. It made it a lot more interesting and a little trickier for people to keep their alliances hidden. I liked it better than tribal council on Survivor.Just my two cents. This is my first season watching Survivor and I'm just not as impressed by it as I thought I'd be. There's a lot more they could do to keep it interesting, imo. Even the competitions aren't that entertaining to watch. Why am I watching you ask? Because it'll bug me if I don't see who wins.