Latest posts for the topic "Seriously WHAT is this competition all about? "

Seriously WHAT is this competition all about?

harpowins — GMT

As the weeks go on I seriously cannot figure out what this competition is supposed to be about. They say it is supposed to be about the relationship between the owner and dog. If that is the case then a dog's physical ability should have NOTHING to do with it. In fact, why aren't there any disabled dogs or humans on the show for that matter? If the true objective was finding the strongest bond, I would think that a service dog's bond to his or her owner would be hard to beat. Of course a service dog would stick right by his or her owner like glue, similar to how Andrew has done, and he has been penalized for doing that. How could a handicapped dog have competed with these challenges so far? I know a tripod dog who is one of the best dogs I know. I really wish they hadn't chosen the name GREATEST AMERICAN DOG. It is misleading and truly makes no sense if the contest is about the connection and bond. Or is it?

Re:Seriously WHAT is this competition all about?

MoonieBoxer — GMT

It states in the "About" section of this website that the show is about the owner's ability to train their dog. So it doesn't seem to necessarily be about the dog's bond with the owner; however that does play an important role in training.I agee that the competitions have gotten very silly, but if they simply ran agility courses every week the majority of the audience would get bored and discontinue to watch. The show would not be a success.I have nothing to back up what I have said....just speaking my thoughts.

Re:Seriously WHAT is this competition all about?

harpowins — GMT

Yes, it does say that. But all the other promos mention the relationship, and that seems to be what the judges say too, for the most part. I don't think the owner's "ability to train his dog" has anything to do with the best relationship at all. I think the show is giving extremely mixed messages. Also, if this is about the owner's ability, why is it called Greatest American Dog? It should be called Greatest American Dog Trainer.

Re:Seriously WHAT is this competition all about?

tink517 — GMT

Could it be that they gave us a hint with their choice of mottos. TV could easily be substituted for the second word.What you see is what you get seems to be most station's attituderather than trying to guide the viewing public on how to teach themselvesand thus teach others that touch their lives.Rather than trying to edify the sponge of our minds are they trying to wring us for all we're worth?

Re:Seriously WHAT is this competition all about?

MoonieBoxer — GMT

My dog is a wonderful dog and I haven't had her a year yet. So I can't take credit for the wonderful that she is. However she would never be able to compete with the dogs on this show because I haven't trained to do the things the dogs on this show do.I state this to make the point that the trainers are necessary in this competition. Their ability to train their dogs along with the dog's ability and willingness to learn and be trained is very necessary.You wouldn't find the "Greatest American Dog" belonging to someone who doesn't give their dog the attention and love and training that these dogs are getting. So yes, the trainers are going to play a BIG role in the competition. I would think that is why they call them "teams" so often during the show. Because the dog and trainer are a team. It is going to take a team effort to win the competition.

Seriously WHAT is this competition all about?

lily_lou — GMT

i agree that these would be very different dogs if they were treated/trained differently and the owners/trainers are essential to the team.. but i would also like to see them get rid of the stop watch and include a three legged dog as you mentioned (or even a two legged dog with a cart for that matter) and judge them on their enthusiasm to complete the task rather than how quickly or perfectly it's executed.. that's so true that dogs with imperfections could surely compete among the greatest of the great! it would also be cool to see more mixed breed pound puppies who have been rescued and rehabilitated.. having bella being the only rescued mutt seems to give her a sympathy vote, when in fact such dogs can hold their own and need not be pitied but should be fairly included..

Re:Seriously WHAT is this competition all about?

schmens — GMT

If it's about the bond between a dog and owner I think Bill and Star are the front runners You can see the bond with each owner and their dog but they stand out to me.

Re:Seriously WHAT is this competition all about?

tink517 — GMT

IMHO The Greatest American Dog is one which through their presence in the owner's life and through their interactions has provided the most tangible evidence of emotional and intellectual growth in the owner.And the owner shows what he has learned from the dog through his interactions with the dog and those around him/her.Since the olympics are on, I wonder if at the end there will be Gold, Silver, and Bronze awarded. My recommendation would be to add another medal to be called platinum. When a record goes gold, the next level up is declared platinum.

Re:Seriously WHAT is this competition all about?

realdealdog — GMT

I think we all know what the Greatest American Dog should be but I'm not so sure the show knows.

Re:Seriously WHAT is this competition all about?

daniel_audet — GMT

removed

Re:Seriously WHAT is this competition all about?

tink517 — GMT

Just curious Dan, who lifted a leg on your Wheaties bowl today?

Re:Seriously WHAT is this competition all about?

realitynot — GMT

ROFL@Dan. I guess he has the best trained dogs in America, hence why he posted his website. Oh, let's all do visit and see what it's about. NOT!

Re:Seriously WHAT is this competition all about?

ccm_crystal — GMT

tink517 wrote: Just curious Dan, who lifted a leg on your Wheaties bowl today?

I swear you crack me up!! I love reading some of your replies.. I really do love this show and I hope they carry it on to another season. I do think some of the things they do is "odd" but I love it too. like the paintings, yes they are not perfect paintings, but hey that is something they created together and will be able to take with them when they leave. I wish I would have done something like that with my pumpkin before he passed.. I miss him so much.

Seriously WHAT is this competition all about?

lily_lou — GMT

that would be an awesome momento to keep according to laura's interview they weren't given the paintings to keep, i wonder why not, it seems it would have sentimental value to the owners/trainers, but it's cool that at least they have the memory of the experience of something they might have never done with their dogs had it not been for that challenge.. too bad judges didn't get to see vid clips of the process.. if they gave points for which dogs enjoyed it most, andrew looked like he was having a blast oh, and crystal i'm sorry for the loss of your Great Pumpkin! he looks like he was a sweetie!! paint or no paint i bet you have some beautiful memories!

Re:Seriously WHAT is this competition all about?

MoonieBoxer — GMT

They didn't get to keep the paintings?!?!?!?!That is awful!

Seriously WHAT is this competition all about?

ccm_crystal — GMT

Thank you lily_lou.

Re:Seriously WHAT is this competition all about?

daniel_audet — GMT

My statement wasn't meant to be angry, hateful or done for profit. The truth is that my website is mostly about doing volunteer work. I train dogs part time. A lot of what I do is as a volunteer for rescues or for families that can’t afford a good trainer. I also use the website to fight AGAINST BSL. I make a decent living doing IT work; my comments were meant to sell anyone anything from my website. My websites other purpose is to provide an area for trainers to discuss techniques in an open forum type style that doesn’t have a ton of censorship.You preferred to judge without finding out.My point is that there are definitely tens of thousands and possibly hundreds of thousands of dogs that compete in dog sports that could beat any one of these dogs. The protection sports of Schutzhund and Modio Ring, even at the middle level have dogs that are leaps and bounds better than these dogs. Any dog that has an AKC UD title could run circles around these dogs with a blind fold on. For instance, do you think that any one of these people could train their dog to jump over a hurdle and pick out a dumbbell out of a pile? Oh yeah... one catch they can ONLY pick the dumbbell that was previously touched by the owner.(scent detection) I think you will agree that is a far cry above what these dogs are doing.I am not claiming that my dogs are in the top 100,000 either. However if I practiced with my lab for a week I probably could beat any of these dogs. Typically these dogs have to hold a down stay for about 2 minutes. When I used to practice with my lab, I used to do about a 20 minute down stay on my front lawn.With David and Elvis, how could anyone even claim that was an obedient dog?With a lot of the competitions the competitors often repeat a command over and over. In an AKC obedience competition even one repetition is a violation.Oh the other big thing is that with most of the competitions the dogs are being lured with food!!! Come on ...gimme a break!!!Then again if I were on this show I would probably be removed the first day. My training style involves both motivation and compulsion. I can just picture good old Victoria getting her panties in a bunch at the first use of any compulsion. No wonder there are some many dogs with behavioral issues in America. Victoria probably needs to spend a week with Cesar Millan. : -) Seeing that the folks making the critical comments have no idea what Im talking about here is an example…www.youtube.com/watch ?v=P92c LHCBiWsThere are thousands of dogs at this level. The dog in the video is light years beyond any dog in that competition. Let’s face it the competitors were selected because the people provide entertainment at some level. I will continue to watch the show. These people make me feel very good about my training ability.

Re:Seriously WHAT is this competition all about?

harpowins — GMT

Dan, yeah, yeah, yeah. There are thousands of people who can sing better than the contestants on American Idol. Thousands of women more beautiful the contestants on America's Next Top Model. Thousands of better dancers than the contestants on So You Think You Can Dance. So what's your point? This show obviously isn't about merely the best trained dogs. It's about so much more than that. It's about the relationship they have with their dogs. Maybe all those people with the better dogs you speak of didn't try out. Or if they did, maybe they were too boring. Who knows? The dogs and people on Greatest American Dogs are interesting to watch. You're watching them aren't you? If it's so beneath you, why do you continue to watch and why are you wasting your time blogging about it on your "volunteer" website?

Re:Seriously WHAT is this competition all about?

daniel_audet — GMT

I'm am blogging about it on my website because it outlines flaws in various types of dog training. This makes for an interesting discussion.You are absolutely correct that these people were selected because they are interesting. They are interesting because they provide drama. That is what America wants. As far as my comments here, the subject of this post was "Seriously WHAT is this competition all about? ". I am commenting on that also. The show never clearly outlined what it was supposed to be about.It is very annoying how each competitor that is booted off claims that even though they were booted off, they have the best relationship with their dog. David and Elvis very much come to mind. Puh-lease!!! David if your dog loved you so much, don't you think he would run away a little bit less and listen to your wishes a little bit more???How can anyone claim that Brandy knows anything about training dogs either. A Bimbo screaming like a Banshee provides some comedic value. I agree. People watch the Jerry Springer Show because it makes them feel better about their own screwed up lives and family. Who knows, maybe I watch it because it makes me feel like I am some sort of dog training guru. So do you make your "beneath you comment" to everyone else that is critical about the show? What about the guy that started this particular topic originally.Oh geez.....that was you wasn't it???" I really wish they hadn't chosen the name GREATEST AMERICAN DOG. It is misleading and truly makes no sense if the contest is about the connection and bond. Or is it?"That does sound a bit critical. What about your use of all caps in the title? Is that not criticizing the title of Greatest American Dog?? Hmmmmm I get it....do as I say not as I do.Shame, shame!!!

Re:Seriously WHAT is this competition all about?

harpowins — GMT

How many competitive dog sports are shown on national prime time television? ZERO Because as impressive as it might be to people who know the level of training it takes, it is just not marketable to the general public. And maybe, just maybe the whole point of selecting dogs that range in abilities was to send the message that "any" dog can be the Greatest. Hey, who knows? But, just curious, how can you tell each dog's "lack of" the "right kind of training" according to Dan from just the brief glimpses we're given on screen? Give me a run down of each dog's/handler's faults, "according to guru Dan." You'll have to do it here because I'm not going to your website.

Re:Seriously WHAT is this competition all about?

daniel_audet — GMT

"How many competitive dog sports are shown on national prime time television? ZERO Because as impressive as it might be to people who know the level of training it takes, it is just not marketable to the general public."I agree totally. The public would rather have stupid drama then something intelligent. Sad but true."Give me a run down of each dog's/handler's faults, "according to guru Dan."The faults are pretty much the same across the board. First off all of these people believe in Pure Positive / Motivational training ONLY right across the board. Right there they have thrown more than half their tools into the garbage. This sort of training is good but it can have a lot of limitations with many dogs. There are some dogs where this all that you need but they are more the rarity than the norm. Secondly if you are going to do a motivational style of training, one only uses food to bribe/lure the dog into the correct position in the early phases. This is done to shape the behavior. If you continue to do it, your dog will flip you the middle finger any time that he sees that you do not have a treat. This occurs over and over on the show.If you have to repeat commands repeatedly you don't have trained dog. One of the key elements that anyone should have if they claim they have a top trained dog is a recall under any sort of distraction. How many people on the show can recall their dog in the presence of distraction? Very few, if any. This is one of the big short comings of motivational only training. Say you train your dog with treats and he likes the treats but he likes chasing rabbits better. Now say one day you have your dog off leash and he sees a rabbit, and that rabbit is headed for the road. You could hold out the tastiest treat in the world but that rabbit is much more interesting. So your dog is now headed for a busy road! So what does one do??? If you need this sort of reliability you have to resort to doing corrections on a long line or with an e-collar. Again some dogs won't need this. One of my dogs would prefer a tennis ball over anything else in the world. However one of my big motivations to learn dog training was my lab. This is a dog that would have run right by the best steak in the world if the door was open even a crack. I worked very hard with the lab and he has been a tremendous inspiration to me. I was even faced with a situation one day where a rabbit ran 10 feet in front of him. He recalled on a single command. I was very proud. Yes, I used an e-collar to train this. I can hear the critics ranting and screaming now. I will be posting video in the near future of him wearing an e-collar, playing and wagging his tail and not showing any signs of stress. Oh..and that e-collar can eventually come off with any dog if you follow the program. When I feed all 3 of my dogs there is no repeating commands or screaming. I have them sit and wait 20 feet from their bowls. I then waive them in. Half way to the bowl and tell them to sit and wait some more. I continue bringing them in to their food bowls closer and closer. Hand signs only. This was trained primarily with motivational methods only. No corrections other than prevention of acquiring the goal when the exercise was not performed correctly. Again I don't think there is anyone on the show that can do this. Again...I don't consider myself having even a dog in the top 100,000 dogs. The biggest thing with dog training is consistency. If you ask a dog to do something once and he doesn't do it and you repeat over and over, you have effectively taught your dog that he doesn't have to listen to you. Tell him once and make him do it. Sooner or later he will figure out that he is going to have to do something anyways so he might as well do it the first time. The people on the show don't seem to understand this. Last but not least or maybe even most importantly...... the Banshee screaming is about the worst thing you can do. Brandy is the master of this but there are multiple competitors that seem to engage in this. There aren't good trainers out there that would ever do this!This tip of the iceberg but should outline some common things that many of these competitors are doing wrong. As I said, I am not a great trainer but at least I'm knowledgeable enough to recognize nonsense when I see it.I am disappointed that you would rather bash me then discuss training techniques. --Dan

Re:Seriously WHAT is this competition all about?

tink517 — GMT

Dan, I would have perhaps included something about your website if there had been anything there to base any kind of opinion of it on. The only thing on it appears to be some videos about pit bulls. I noticed before opening your website that you had posted about this site on a website called urbanhound back on Jan 13, 2007. Let's just say I was very disappointed because when I opened it and clicked around everyything was empty except for some links to software and some videos about pit bulls. Oh, and I almost forgot I think it was three topics posted by you. There was nothing there to base an opinion on except for your rude statement. In your post you talk about your dogs like they are robots programmed by you. I'm sure the lab would rather be playing frisbee or skateboarding for 20 minutes rather than just sitting and waiting for your every command. If we the viewing public, actually wanted to see dogs doing all these things you refer to as evidence of your training ability, we could go and see that kind of show in person. In case you hadn't noticed, CBS is not a public television station as in supported by donations. This is the forum for the viewing public to voice their opinions about what happened on the show and voice their complaints and compliments. Hopefully, CBS or perhaps another network will read this forum and look for ways to make this show or one like it better. This show is about showing the personal relationship these owners have with their animals not just the training aspect. If watching the show makes you feel better about yourself and your training abilities, then go right ahead. In that case,I pity you since judging from the lack of input on your website, it's just you and the TV having having a one sided conversation in your house on Wednesday nights.

Re:Seriously WHAT is this competition all about?

harpowins — GMT

Dan, Yawn. Less is more dude. You can't reinvent the wheel. Compulsion training vs. positive training is an old, tired debate. Plus Cesar Millan beat you to it. But I will tell you this, NO ONE would have wanted to watch a show with dogs in pinch collars. choke chains and being "made" to do things. Yuck. And nobody would have wanted to watch a bunch of robot dogs either. Those competitions go on all the time behind closed doors.

Re:Seriously WHAT is this competition all about?

daniel_audet — GMT

The website is very new. True there isn't much there. I agree. As I explained it's intent isn't to make money but to allow people to share knowledge. It's attempt is to also save a few dogs from being euthanized. I have started a review of each episode. The attempt was to get people to post their opinions on dog training in an open forum. (check the blog area)One of the big reasons I started the website was because there are ton of dog trainers out there charging a small fortune and delivering very little. For years I have wanted to know the TRUTH about dog training. I am now at least on the right path. I have discovered a ton over the last couple years.I will be creating videos in the very near future to demonstrate what I am talking about. I am in the process of acquiring the equipment. My attempt with dog training isn't to create robots. My dogs are family members. If you love your family members you will do whatever is necessary to keep them safe. A certain amount of basic training is necessary for this. One of my dogs is 140 lb Boerboel. Can you imagine what a 140 lb dominant dog might do if he was never given any guidance? With the volunteer work I do, I often do house calls to help someone deal with a dog that has bitten multiple people. These people once upon a time maybe were against having a robot also. It is amazing how opinions can change.I know lots of people that compete in dog sports. There isn't anyone on this show that is the caliber of these people. A few of the people on the show are claiming that they are professionals that make their living training dogs. They have made the tall claims that they can not live up to.

Re:Seriously WHAT is this competition all about?

harpowins — GMT

You're on an old, worn path.

Re:Seriously WHAT is this competition all about?

daniel_audet — GMT

" Plus Cesar Millan beat you to it."As a matter of fact, I love Cesar. You probably don't. I never said compulsion only. From the beginning I said balanced.Seeing that you are so critical, how about you and I stage a video dog obedience competition? I would expect one of the events to be recall under distraction. You are critical of what I'm saying but how about you enlighten us with your magical space age techniques that are new and revolutionary? Perhaps you use the same ones the competitors on the show use...."Sit....Sit ....Sit....I said....Siiittt!!!!! Sit, sit sit sit"Ah yes ...that is wonderful isn't it?!

Re:Seriously WHAT is this competition all about?

lily_lou — GMT

i agree, it is not a show about "the best training methods" or the "most experienced owner".. it is about everyday people bragging about how great their dog is, and "great" encompasses alot more than performance skills! "great" is the love they give us and the love they accept from us.. "great" is their eagerness to please.. there's nothing like being greeted by somebody who is so happy to see me they can barely contain their excitement.. nobody ever greets me as enthusiasticly as my k9 pals and they make my day, for that they are "great"! i personally would hate to sacrifice that enthusiasm by too-rigid training expectations.. as long as they are trained to harm none and to keep themselves from harm, then everything else is just frills.. how would i ensure a "poorly" trained dog's safety from darting into traffic? i'd keep him on a leash! isn't that the law anyway? it is in my state.. so enjoy your status as guru, i'd rather be a friend to man's best friends, because that bond in itself is what makes a dog great.. all dog owners consider their dog america's greatest, so the only change i would make in the title to make it more accurate would be "greatest american dogS"!

Re:Seriously WHAT is this competition all about?

daniel_audet — GMT

tink517 No wonder you and I don't agree. You are a fan of Laurie the back stabber. As many flaws as David had with Elvis, I really didnt think he deserved the back stabbing that she administreed. Oh lets not forget, her cheating by ripping the hole in the paper bigger. Wow and you were criticizing me?! You your ethical compass seems to be out of tune!

Re:Seriously WHAT is this competition all about?

harpowins — GMT

LOL why are you so defensive? I haven't claimed to be a dog training guru like you have. The best dog trainers train/teach the owners. Your bashing style and superior attitude is probably a real turn off to most people you meet. I suspect you don't have many clients. Which is probably why you've come here. I've found that people who are really confident and knowledgeable don't generally come to online forums to berate and convince others of their greatness. The real dog trainers are likely out doing it, not blogging on the Greatest American Dog forum about it.

Re:Seriously WHAT is this competition all about?

tink517 — GMT

In short, who died?I guess the reading forum. Either with laughter or boredom. Take your pick.

Re:Seriously WHAT is this competition all about?

harpowins — GMT

Psssst, you guys, I think ole Dan's a phony and a troll. If you notice he doesn't have any contact info on his website other than an email addy. No phone number, no address of his so-called training business. Hence, no accountability. There is no way a respectable dog trainer would behave like this on a public forum. Yep, phony and troll. I hope no one's stupid enough to "register" as he suggested.

Re:Seriously WHAT is this competition all about?

daniel_audet — GMT

Wow! You took that guru comment seriously? Dude it was a joke!I thought I made that clear by saying I definitely don't have a dog in the top 100,000. My claim was that these people are just ordinary people also. If I am such a sorry individual why have you wasted all your time bashing me. What does that say about you?My hope was that we could have an intelligent conversation on my website about various dog training methods. It has turned into a bashfest. Trust me I regret this.

Re:Seriously WHAT is this competition all about?

daniel_audet — GMT

Harpo you obviously can't read. I said I had no intent on making money. I do volunteer work and try to fight BSL movements.I really regret wasting my time with you. You will notice that there is an email address at the bottom of the home page of the website.

Seriously WHAT is this competition all about?

lily_lou — GMT

nobody denies these are ordinary people.. that's what gives the show its charm imho, the average viewer can identify with them, from their successes to their mistakes to their neuroses, but especially we can relate to the simple fact that having dogs in our lives is one of the greatest experiences we could ask for.. i watch the show to celebrate how dogs bring out the best in people.. it's not a cut-throat kind of competition.. i personally find that very refreshing..

Re:Seriously WHAT is this competition all about?

tink517 — GMT

Dan, maybe I "sound" out of tune to you because you are tone deaf. If you looked at my profile enough to see that I'm a Laurie and Andrew fan you might have seen the pictures of my own Maltese and make the connection. If you would stop typing long enough to do the research on my postings that you accused me of not doing concerning your website, you should realize that most of my postings are not pulled out of thin air or talking to myself in the mirror. Maybe once you start "creating" your own videos, you will come to realize the power of editing. Isn't it funny that both the words reality and realize begin with the same word, real, as in Get. You talk about what the "purpose" of your website it, you're not just beginning to sound like but you seem to be your own infomercial.I beleive it was Harpo that commented, Yawn.and might I add click.

Seriously WHAT is this competition all about?

lily_lou — GMT

tink keep singing, we're in harmony and harpo i agree.. i'm leary of people who resort to self-promoting.. most trainers worth their weight are well-known by their shining reputations.. people who are pleased with them spread the news and word gets around, if someone is needing to blow his own horn i would have to wonder why.. maybe his potential clients got tired of being asked to wait for twenty minutes before being motioned in.. nobody, human or canine, likes a control freak.. i'm being rude now so i better shut up

Re:Seriously WHAT is this competition all about?

tink517 — GMT

Hey Harpo and Lily, I went back in and looking back through the topic I noticed that his original statement rating all the trainers/owners together as poorer than 100,000 other dog and trainer combos out there has been deleted. The thought that just occurred to me was given the his longlongwindedness, how in the world could he have possibly made a personal assessment of all these other trainer/dog combos. He would have to be minimumly older than Jesus.And Dan if you are out there, well you already thoroughly demonstrated that fact, but I meant in the physical sense, and up to a challenge. The easiest way for you to get a true reading of the direction of my compass, just go back to the topic titled, LAURA's appalling evil nature, my four posts together as a whole, wouldn't be as long as just one of yours here. Of course that might make it a harder challenge for you since they are not at all about you. Since you seem to take pride in physically challenging your dogs, let's see how well you can perform a mental one.

Re:Seriously WHAT is this competition all about?

lily_lou — GMT

tink i guess we're not invited to his website anymore, i guess that showed us, lol! yes it would be impossible to fully assess that many owner/dog teams.. for that matter even the show's contestents can't be fully assessed.. what we see is what we get, none of them has discussed at length which training methods they do or don't use.. though i do agree with one observation dan made which is that it seems they all lean towards positive reenforcement.. but to me that is a good thing.. i don't see it as a lack of balance to take physical punishment out of the picture! i have seen it as america is becoming enlightened and is figuring out that there are far better and more humaine ways to gain control of dogs without having to hurt them.. i hope the trend towards the positive continues and that old school methods become obsolete.. anyone who has broken a cycle of abuse knows that "because it has always been done this way" is not a good enough reason to continue with hurtful methods or harsh control.. there are other/better ways to gain disciplined behavior and kudos to those who have outgrown the old ways of beating their dogs into submission or expecting them to be mindless robots.. in terms of long term behavior i have seen nothing but aggression or shut down from dogs who eventually reach their limits of such rigid (and often painful) control tactics.. it may in the short term seem to "work", but if we are aggressive in our methods then the dog sees from our example that being aggressive is how to get by in the world.. it becomes a viscious circle.. i'm glad to see contestents using kinder methods by and large.. there's a reason they all use positive motivation, because it too "works", has better long term benefits in the dogs temperament and wellbeing, not to mention it is far more humaine! i am the first to admit i am not highly educated in either school of thought, but i have observed behaviors in dogs and seen the results of positive training vs. the old school ways.. i'm sticking with the new and improved methods and i'm glad the owners on the show do too!oh and to his point that none of the show's owners/trainers have control over their dogs as compared to dan making them sit/stay and wait for their meals, i disagree.. when bill put food in star's mouth and pretended to read the label and made her wait until he said go-ahead, he did it in a funloving way but it still showed alot of discipline! for a dog to be able to wait twenty feet from his dish, somewhat impressive, but to be able to wait while it's already in her mouth, that takes even more self control.. i was very impressed! bill makes it look like a fun little trick, but it truly does speak of having firm but loving control of his dog.. that to me is where "balance" comes in.. we can be firm and let the dog know who the alpha leader is without having to harm them.. it has to do with trust.. star trusts bill to know what is best for her, because he has established that trust through kindness.. respect and intimidation are two very different things, and i love how star truly respects bill, and the same could be said for the other five teams..speaking of longwinded soapboxes, i'll get off mine now, lol

Re:Seriously WHAT is this competition all about?

kingregis — GMT

In my opinion I believe that the entire relationship between dog and trainer is what they are looking for. How the dog reacts to that relationship, henceforth THE GREATEST AMERICAN DOG. Also, just who has the best relationship ?

Re:Seriously WHAT is this competition all about?

daniel_audet — GMT

I was about to leave this discussion because it turned into a mindless bash, insult-fest. However lily_lou finally interjected some logic into it.When I first came here, my purpose was to discuss dog training with other dog enthusiasts. I think a lot of what I said was taken about of context. Some of the statements I made were made as a joke, hence the . I thought this would be recognized. Let me set one point perfectly straight, I would NEVER advocate beating up a dog. This accomplishes NOTHING other than destroying the relationship that you have with your dog, besides just being WRONG in every way.I however am not against an appropriate correction for SOME dogs for SOME types of training. You basically train into your dog what you need out of them. Everyone's needs will vary. Every dog is different.Having said that, I prefer positive methods for MOST training. With puppies its the ONLY way. I think anyone that can even say they somewhat like Cesar Millan can not say they are 100% against correction based training. His training is VERY correction based. I personally am a Cesar fan. The big factor to me that I always look at is, how many dogs does he save from being euthanized per year? Lots!!! A lot of his critics that love to jump and down and scream save 0.My dogs are not mindless robots and they are always happy to see me. Why did I originally introduce any compulsion into my dog training??? I was attending Pure Positive classes and was seeing very poor results all around me. Some of the dogs would do a lot of the exercises but would fall apart with any form of distraction. The big reason, I started attending these classes is that my Lab at the time would knock down a full grown 200 lb man and run out of the door down the road. I said I had to do something before he would end up dead. The structure of the class was such that you paid for a year membership and could show up every Saturday morning for a year. I was making some progress but I finally lost faith in their methods. Why?? The one day a series of mistakes made by the people at the school almost translated into the death of my dog. These mistakes found my dog loose running down the middle of a busy road. After my dog was finally retrieved I felt ill to my stomach, happy and depressed at the same time. I vowed to do whatever it would take to make my dog safe. I would not be able to deal with his death due to my failure.As luck would have it a neighbor introduced me to a friend of his that is a full time K9 trainer. This was the start of a very long journey for me. Initially I was just a customer. Then I was a friend and then I started helping him train dogs. Some of the dogs I trained there eventually went on to be service dogs. His typical clients are police officers, customs officials or just people that want an estate protection dog. He trains drug, bomb and protection work. The only thing I really worked on there was basic obedience.I was not content to just learn from one person. I studied under several other people to gain different perspectives. I took some classes in AKC obedience competition for instance. That same disobedient lab seemed to be at the top of his class every time. It is not that I have any special talent. I was just obsessed with learning the truth. I still have a long way to go but have also come a long way.Before my membership ended at the Pure Positive school, I had adopted my Boerboel puppy. My wife would go to to the classes with me. I taught her little snippets of what I had learned. At the end of these classes they would often have impromptu competitions. These competitions gave me a sense of pride. My wife with our 6 month old puppy was often winning the competitions!!! This meant more to me then me actually winning the competition. If the class was divided into 2 groups. We would often both win our heats.As far as the comment goes about waiting to be told that it is ok to eat, there was no huge amount of compulsion there, just lots of persistence and patience. Again you are welcome to form your own opinions. I realize that some of the comments made probably make me sound like a pure compulsion trainer. Nothing could be further from the truth. In recent times, I have made even greater efforts to reduce the amount of compulsion even further. My latest work of study is the system invented by this man. Ivan BalabanovRead about his philosophy here...www.thedoghousellc.com /positiv - ly.htmI would say that my own is parallel to that. As far as my training ability goes, that man is a God, I am nothing in comparison. He has multiple World Schutzhund titles to his credit. I am against absolute blanket statements. I don't believe that Pure Positive is the only answer for every dog. I also don't believe sticking to a pure correction form of training. Such philosophies are extremely limiting. The methods chosen will often be based on the dog and what that dog will be exposed to. If you have a dog that has no desire to "critter", a reliable recall could be taught with Pure Positive only. If your dog lives for crittering...well good luck with the Pure Positive. Oh ...you might hit an 80% reliabilty mark but that 99% reliability will most likely evade you.I have rambled on a long time again...My purpose was to set the record straight and thank lily_lou for bringing a social aspect to this discussion. For my critics, I removed the link to my website because you were convinced that I was doing it for personal gain. I assure you that is very far from the truth.For those of you that are Pure Positive fans, a friend of mine will be posting some videos in the near future that are Pure Positive based on my website. She is against compulsion training but recognizes that the Pure Positive can have limitations. I have a tremendous amount of respect for her. If the community here decides that I am just a troll, I will gladly delete the rest of my posts and leave you all in peace. I never came here to start trouble. I was actually agreeing with Harpo about his/her comments, what is this contest about anyways??? The contests leads one to believe that is is very obedience based. I wish the show creators would have spelled this out more clearly.Oh one question... the video that I posted from youtube.... do you folks consider that a robot dog??? Just curious.--Dan

Re:Seriously WHAT is this competition all about?

lily_lou — GMT

thank you for the flattery but i disagree that i have been the only logical poster on this thread! other well educated and thoughtful comments were made by others! i'm sorry for the trouble you had with your dog and glad he is safe from traffic now, but i guess we'll have to agree to disagree that positive methods could not have helped with this problem.. it may take more time to sink in than intimidation methods, but i still root for positive.. my own solution would be to keep my dog on a leash until he is able to control himself off leash.. most if not all states have laws in which dogs are supposed to be on leash in public areas anyway.. i would consider a high traffic area to be a place in which a leash is desirable.. when i take dogs for an off-leash run it is at a dog friendly beach where traffic is not a concern.. to each their own, but if the subject comes up i will get on the bandwagon for nonhurtful training methods any day.. ps, it made me chuckle to see that the spat between victoria and wendy was on this very same issue the conversation between laurie and jd was like deja vu too, lol i guess to paraphraze victoria i would have to say we are obviously both passionate in our views and that's not likely to change so we may as well shake hands and return to our seperate corners (until the next round, haha) not that this subject is a laughable matter, but i'm trying to keep it friendly oh, and i haven't had time to see the youtube thing but i did see the website, and if you're curious about how i did on the pit bull quiz i identified him on the second try.. (i chose the boer boel pup first, but even as i was clicking it i had a feeling i was wrong because his forehead was too wrinkly).. and for the record i am also against breed discrimination.. one of my best pals is a dobermin and she is an absolute sweetheart! she is also one of the reasons for my passion on this subject, she was formerly in an abusive home and had major issues because of it, she is now in a loving positive home and very well behaved.. (that's her on my avatar)